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Hart Keene
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Eugene, OR
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I was using that as a comparison...lol

Lets not lump them(theory 11 individuals) together with the digital dissolve fiasco. We don't know how involved each member is...
-Hart

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Magician Portland Oregon
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
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Were someone in my family to put the dirty wash in the window or to go yelling obscenities out the window I'd expect to be looked at funny on the street and asked by all and sundry ... for a while. It's called shame.

I'm sorry Mat Bich is anywhere close to this.

If anything I suggest folks step back and see where this goes comes thanksgiving. I'd like to have reason to think good things about those guys and their project.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
John T Cox
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Quote:
On 2007-10-21 10:46, princehal wrote:
I feel a bit victimized myself in this, having to wrestle with ethics while, at the same time, wishing to use something I purchased.


This is a tough call to make. I too bought one of these only knowing/caring a little about the controversy at the time. My consciousness on the subject has been raised considerably. Personally, I will not throw it away because of the lack of proper crediting and permissions. Each has to decide that issue personally. It's a beautiful effect and I think more global good would come from showing the effect and then crediting Steve Dusheck than a purely personal, symbolic, throwing away of the gaff.
The real magic is family!
Review King
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Eternal Order
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I wrote Theory 11 again and asked them to do the right thing. They have a tarnished reputation now. Anytime they come to the Café for a "big" announcement, this will haunt them, just like the stars of Magic Makers when they announce projects.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
MickeyPainless
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I wonder if you'll get a reply or a form letter Chris?!?!? I just peeked at the topic over there and it seems people are really starting to question T11 and their ethics. The baffling part to me as a business man is WHY risk so much over so little profit? Run the numbers..... Sale price 35 bucks minus cost of gaffus minus advertising and packaging minus DVD production minus, minus, minus then add in all the expense of a start up company. The risk to reward ratio seems radically imbalanced IMO! Makes me wonder who wrote their business plan!
Mick
jimbowmanjr
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Inside the Bottle
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Quote:
On 2007-10-27 00:30, MickeyPainless wrote:
I wonder if you'll get a reply or a form letter Chris?!?!? I just peeked at the topic over there and it seems people are really starting to question T11 and their ethics. The baffling part to me as a business man is WHY risk so much over so little profit? Run the numbers..... Sale price 35 bucks minus cost of gaffus minus advertising and packaging minus DVD production minus, minus, minus then add in all the expense of a start up company. The risk to reward ratio seems radically imbalanced IMO! Makes me wonder who wrote their business plan!
Mick


My thoughts are right in line with yours Mickey. Actually the thread "What is different about Digital Dissolve?" is usually bumped or provoked by the same people and generally dies otherwise, much to the appreciation of the T11 staff I am sure. It is the attitude of indifference by the community over there that bothers me the most. What is even more tiresome is that people are continuing to buy it without even looking into the reviews and questions surrounding it first.

It is my guess...and this is just a guess is that the folks over there are banking on that attitude of indifference to keep their company afloat. It is sad to say that they are probably betting on the winning horse. There are more than likely many more people who could care less than there are who actually care about what actually happened with that release. You don't have to look much farther than the discussions here on the Café and over there to notice that it is always the same people raising the questions. My prediction is that there will be no real resolution to this debacle and the people who buy from them could care less one way or the other anyways, win-win for them I guess.

--Jim
Review King
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Quote:
On 2007-10-27 00:30, MickeyPainless wrote:
I wonder if you'll get a reply or a form letter Chris?!?!? I just peeked at the topic over there and it seems people are really starting to question T11 and their ethics. The baffling part to me as a business man is WHY risk so much over so little profit? Run the numbers..... Sale price 35 bucks minus cost of gaffus minus advertising and packaging minus DVD production minus, minus, minus then add in all the expense of a start up company. The risk to reward ratio seems radically imbalanced IMO! Makes me wonder who wrote their business plan!
Mick


I got a personal reply the first time and Lee Asher wrote me.

But...they are still selling it.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 12:53, Hart Keene wrote:...I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with....


What does that mean? Someone wants his idea and he says NO, so he is difficult. When someone tried to steal my wallet once they found me “difficult to deal with”.

I have only had two dealings with Mr. Dusheck. I inquired about an old trick, no longer available, so he sent me the instructions for free and at his expense. I recently ordered his DVD and manuscripts, his wife sent me my check back and apologized that his health would not allow him to fill my order. Then he sent me his DVD and a nice note for FREE and at his expense. Difficult to deal with? I don’t think so!
MickeyPainless
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RCP,
Steve must have thought he was sending it to the gal in your pic! LOL
You're absolutely right, he is a prince of a guy and hopefully wrongs will be righted and credits be credited where credits are due!
GREAT DVD aye?
Mick
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On 2007-10-27 17:05, RCP wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-10-23 12:53, Hart Keene wrote:...I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with....


What does that mean? Someone wants his idea and he says NO, so he is difficult. When someone tried to steal my wallet once they found me “difficult to deal with”.

I have only had two dealings with Mr. Dusheck. I inquired about an old trick, no longer available, so he sent me the instructions for free and at his expense. I recently ordered his DVD and manuscripts, his wife sent me my check back and apologized that his health would not allow him to fill my order. Then he sent me his DVD and a nice note for FREE and at his expense. Difficult to deal with? I don’t think so!


What Hart is trying to say is that if someone on the street asks to borrow your car and you say no, it's now acceptable for them to steal it. I agree. As long as they first asked nicely, you forfeit all rights to your property.

Steve D. is a sweetheart of a guy.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jonathan Townsend
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Hey, if you can aggravate the car owner enough that they go away does that mean you get full credit for the stuff you are using of theirs?

On the serious side, let's hang till thanksgiving and see where we are then. It's really a bad thing to get people feeling cornered or hounded.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Steve Dusheck
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Hazleton, PA
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If people are going to claim I am difficult to deal with I would like them to give the names of the people actually making those statements and real examples of my being difficult to do business with.
When BJ Beuno asked me gor permission to make my sliding shell I said he could as long as it was not similar to my C/S Transpo routine. I explained that my health was bad and I needed the income from that trick just to pay for the medication I must take every day.
I told him if he only had different handling he could publish it or make a DVD showing anything new with my gimmick. But he insisted on having my gimmick to sell. I offered to supply the gimmicks but he didn't want to buy from me. He didn't even ask what I would charge for the gimmicks. That is why I said no to him. he did not want me to make any profit at all from my gimmick even though he knew I have health problems.
It was only when I refused that they all decided to claim I didn't invent the gimmick at all. But I did invent and anyone who knows of all the tricks I manufactured over the years knows I only manufacture my own creations.
Once my latest health problem is resolved I intend to start making my gimmicks again since no one can even copy them properly. I do not sell to any magic dealers so I don't have to sell wholes sale at 50% to 60% off the retail price. That means I hope be selling my gimmicks for about $15.00 with printed instrustions that will include additional routines. For those of you who insist on DVD instructions I will have an optional DVD available for about $5.00.
I am disappointed that so few magicians remember me. I quit selling magic to magic dealers about 15 years ago because they were all making or selling copies of all of my tricks. Copying tricks doesn't sound like much of a crime but my financial losses to the machinists and magic dealers is in the 6 figure range.
I am very easy to deal with. I gave my lethal tender to Sterling Magic and many other visual coin tricks such as Washout. I gave Waltzing matilda to Tenyo. I gave the 5 books I wrote to Jim Klein. I gave tricks to anyone who needed new tricks to help them financially. Many of the people I gave tricks to were strangers. And after giving them the tricks I ordered and paid for 100 of each to give them working capital. I also wrote the instructions and had them printed for them free. I would relly like to know the names of the people claiming I am difficult to deal with.
Best wishes,
Steve
Steve Dusheck
rutabaga
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Toronto, Canada
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Steve, let us know when you're up and running. You have a guaranteed customer right here [and I'm sure I'm not alone].

All the best to you!
Review King
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I forwarded Steve's comemnts to Jonthan Bayme ( Theory 11 CEO ) and to Lee Asher.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
lunatik
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I'll pick up some items from steve once he starts selling again
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 21:28, podcastrant wrote:
Hart,
[...]
Your asinine comment regarding my comment that the co-chair of ethics for the SAM came on here and said it was a rip-off, I guess was your attempt at sarcasm. It fell short.

Kenner doesn't really have that great a reputation (on this board at least) for ethics. Since he took an idea of Jonathan Townsend's added a few things (including an unpublished Latta move for the last vanish that he didn't ask permission to publish) and released it without permission.

In his original ThreeFly pamphlet he states that it had been a pet routine of his since 1986. I find this funny since all documentation from Jonathan says that he showed it to Kenner in 1987. How could it have been a pet routine of his a year before Jonathan showed it to him?

If you watch Kenner's history of ThreeFly on COINvention you'll see that he said it was some time after Jonathan showed it to him that he perfected his routine. So this would put his dating in the instructions off even more

We've done our research, now you do yours.



Hey, "podcastrant" (speaking of asinine) since you've now been shown to be WRONG on both points - Chris Kenner "stealing" from Townsend, and the relative dates you've claim to have "researched" - can we expect an open apology to Kenner any time soon?

Just because you're one of Jonathan's lap dogs doesn't mean you have to follow in his his footsteps. You've made your mistakes and been mislead by your own personal Svengali, but don't you think now's the time for you to try to be a man and atone for your sins?

We'll wait over here.

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
jbayme
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Mr. Dusheck, et al,

After exhaustively speaking with everyone here at theory11, I have decided to completely suspend sales of Digital Dissolve until we fully resolve the issue with Mr. Dusheck. To keep everyone current with what's happening, at this time, we are still trying to resolve this delicate situation privately, respectfully, and professionally. As the CEO of theory11, I do take responsibility, and I am truly sorry.

Please know I've only had pure intent from the beginning. When the situation first came to our attention, we began additional research and I promptly had a handwritten letter sent to Mr. Dusheck approximately four weeks ago in hopes of resolving the matter directly. I have still not received any response to this letter, and thereafter followed up with numerous emails and unsuccessful attempts to reach Mr. Dusheck by phone.

Please understand that it was my intention (and still is) to reach out and resolve the matter directly, privately, and professionally with all parties involved before replying and discussing this on a public forum. It's important for us to make known theory11's position and situation regarding this matter so that a lot of false accusations, rumors, and hearsay are laid to rest.

I work every day to resolve this issue. Chris and I attempted to contact Mr. Dusheck yesterday afternoon with no success. Only after his last post was I made aware of his delicate health issues. This can certainly account for a lack of response. Despite everything, I still truly wish to speak with him directly to express my apologizes for all the mistakes made and to "make good" on the situation.

Again, please understand that it was my intent to resolve this matter privately before coming to the forums. On top of everything, trying to wrangle everyone on my team (artists and staff included) for a full discussion was quite an effort. It took longer than I expected, and I, like everyone else on our team - wanted this to be resolved weeks ago.

Believe me when I say I want to make everything better-than-right for Mr. Dusheck.

Mr. Dusheck, if you're reading this - I am willing to do anything it will take to make this right. If you will please give me five minutes of your time, you'll hear the sincerity in my voice.

Respectfully,

// jonathan.bayme
ceo / theory11
atigu
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About time this was pulled, just way too late for my taste though.
But by all means, good thing you guys over at T11 finally woke up.
Chad Barnard
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Oh Thomas, how are those coin ladders coming?

Quote:
On 2007-10-26 20:45, Thomas Wayne wrote:

I’ve just shown that you’ve lied all along about Chris Kenner “stealing” your routine. Turns out you taught it to him, and one thing we all know is THAT isn’t “stealing”.


So this would mean that Lassen did nothing wrong to Kohler. Are you ready to atone for yours?

Right now it's Bob's word against Jonathan's. Bob says 84 and Jonathan says 87. Although I recanted after Bob's reply, I'm now waiting to see more evidence.

Quote:
On 2007-10-26 23:44, Thomas Wayne wrote:
(PS: As for you, “podcastrant”, I was finished discussing anything with you a long time ago.)


I see your word is as good as mine.

Back on topic....Thanks Jonathan Bayme, this means a lot to a lot of coin workers on here. I think this step speaks volumes.
Hart Keene
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Like I said before, my comments on Steve D. were hearsay from a few anonymous folks. Notice the grapevine comment boys? That means hearsay. I didn't speak it as "fact". Obviously most of you have had a different experience with him, but I guess that is just hearsay to me as well...
-Hart

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Magician Portland Oregon
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