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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Digital Dissolve Inquiry » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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princehal
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I don't disagree Mickey, it is brilliant, I was just muttering out loud.

Also I agree about Theory 11. I will not purchase anything else from them, unless this is resolved well.

If the gaff becomes available in a proper way, I will try to purchase it. I bought mine before the controversy was established. I wrestle with the ethics of using it, but indeed I did use it it a few times in a performance last night. I know folks will think less of me because of this, but I admit it freely because it is truth. Perhaps a few years from now, when my arsenal is larger I would easily toss it away. This time, I could not bring myself to do that because of the brilliance of what I had in my hands.

I feel a bit victimized myself in this, having to wrestle with ethics while, at the same time, wishing to use something I purchased. I feel like I have a hot car, and I still need to get to work. I hate being put in this position, and will be loath to buy anything from anyone that is a new release. How can I know it's not a rip-off? Or that someone will not complain at some point.
jimbowmanjr
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Even if this is resolved, although I am not sure how this could be resolved at this point aside from completely removing the product, I still have zero intentions of ever buying anything from there.

What would have been prudent on Theory11's part would have been to suspend the further sale of said item until the matter was resolved. I sincerely hope that Steve does NOT give them his permission simply because of the way they went about pushing this effect onto the market.

I could really care less at this point as I am just disgusted overall with how this entire thing was handled in addition to the artists involved with it all. They might have some great magicians in their lineup but they have some pretty **** poor businessmen in their lineup as well.

--Jim
atigu
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I've been thinking the same thing since I saw J.Bayme's more or less useless post, some pointless PR line about having looked into it for a month with a whole team of so called specialists, and they still haven't gotten anywhere close to a conclusion it seems (this "full month" of research should ofcourse simply have been done before releasing the product at all).

The only thing I with my small head can manage to get out of that message is simply that they're admitting that the "accusations" may be well deserved, hence they haven't done their job properly from the start, and since the ceo is so sincerely admitting to this possibility, absolutely without a doubt should have suspended the sales once they started having doubts about themselves (one full month ago). This is sad..


Probably a bunch of typos in there, I'm not english.
And a little yay! I finally made a post, after lurking in the shadows for ages.
hi hi folks Smile
Mb217
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So, I see the young CEO has finally spoken up as a captain of industry...And spoke a bit too canned for my taste, sorta like what a CEO would sound like in explaining such a situation. Still hasn't said much of anything except stay tuned and basically we're sorry we did this and you guys caught us on it. Smile

Wonder what "research" has taken them all this long to figure out or re-construe??? All the background has been in this conversation here, from topflite guys including Dusheck himself. So just who are they checking with? Just think, if no noise here, then these same folks go on as usual, No blood-No foul-No kiddin'! Smile Interesting.
*Check out my latest: MBs Mini Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


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Hart Keene
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Quote:
On 2007-10-22 14:27, atigu wrote:
I've been thinking the same thing since I saw J.Bayme's more or less useless post, some pointless PR line about having looked into it for a month with a whole team of so called specialists, and they still haven't gotten anywhere close to a conclusion it seems (this "full month" of research should ofcourse simply have been done before releasing the product at all).

The only thing I with my small head can manage to get out of that message is simply that they're admitting that the "accusations" may be well deserved, hence they haven't done their job properly from the start, and since the ceo is so sincerely admitting to this possibility, absolutely without a doubt should have suspended the sales once they started having doubts about themselves (one full month ago). This is sad..


Probably a bunch of typos in there, I'm not english.
And a little yay! I finally made a post, after lurking in the shadows for ages.
hi hi folks Smile


I like how your first post on the Café is on this topic...

Asher, Kenner, Fisher, Houchin, Etc. Those names aren't special(ist) enough for you?

I am by no means involved in any of the "talks" or negotiating that is going on with the digital dissolve thing. But, after reading the thread that got deleted and from what I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with. Give this thing some time guys. If you start getting bored go look at some current world events and worry about things that really matter. But if you must focus on a freakin coin trick then keep in mind that AT LEAST THEORY 11 IS DOING SOMETHING!!! That is more than a I can say for a lot of other magicians and manufacturers...
-Hart

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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 12:53, Hart Keene wrote:...I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with....That is more than a I can say for a lot of other magicians and manufacturers...


He was asked. He said NO. Sorry your buddy was involved.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Chad Barnard
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Hart,

You take on this is mind-boggling.
Jonathan Townsend
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Pod, sad to see that someone does not understand that no means no ... it starts to look like the rape analogy may hold as suitable after all.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Hart Keene
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 12:58, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-10-23 12:53, Hart Keene wrote:...I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with....That is more than a I can say for a lot of other magicians and manufacturers...


He was asked. He said NO. Sorry your buddy was involved.


When did I say my buddy was involved? I am playing devils advocate here...or trying. None of you know EXACTLY what is/has gone on so why all the finger pointing?
-Hart

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Chad Barnard
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Uh....yes we do. It's documented. The co-chair of ethics for the SAM came on here and said that we were right. What legs does your "devil's advocate" table have to stand on?
Jonathan Townsend
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Folks,

IMHO the devil has enough advocates as is.

Maybe we can leave the role playing to those who know how to read a script and take direction?

J
...to all the coins I've dropped here
atigu
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[quote]On 2007-10-23 12:53, Hart Keene wrote:
Quote:


Asher, Kenner, Fisher, Houchin, Etc. Those names aren't special(ist) enough for you?



Well let me put it this way, I always thought they where (atleast Asher and Fisher), but from what I can tell atm it seems like I may have been mistaken (a month and who knows how much time before release they spent on researching and it's done nothing for them).
Ofcourse they might actually be experts and simply just thieves..

I'm still hoping atleast 2 of my "heroes" (you should be able to guess who) somehow ends up actually having no blame in this at all in some strange way (I'm thinking they're only "artists" and I'll keep it like that in my head for a while longer atleast).

And yes you are right in that T11 actually does something, and something of that something is wrongdoings..

Btw. it's still for sale which I still think is wrong no matter what names you throw at my face Smile
Hart Keene
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 13:00, podcastrant wrote:
Hart,

You take on this is mind-boggling.


Oh is it? I didn't know that I had "a take". Do you know exactly what is/has gone on? I am simply saying that we should wait for things to pan out before starting a witch hunt. A lot of good reputations can get tainted by rumors that circulate here on the Café. That is all I'm saying...

Once again these are artists that have a perfect track record and some have even done more than all of you put together to stop theft. Just take it easy...
-Hart

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Hart Keene
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 15:09, podcastrant wrote:
Uh....yes we do. It's documented. The co-chair of ethics for the SAM came on here and said that we were right. What legs does your "devil's advocate" table have to stand on?


Well then kill them all!!!!!! Asher, Fisher, BJ, Houchin, all of em! Let me grab my hood and cloak. Did you guys remember rope? Less messy...what about torches? Do you think it will be dark?

These guys were never going to release any more original magic anyway! They would have just continued to lie, steel, and cheat! Kill em all! Oh yeah, there is documentation that Copperfield raped some girl! We don't need to wait for that to pan out! Lets be rid of him while were at it! He must be connected to theory 11 as well because of his connection with Kenner!;)
-Hart

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MickeyPainless
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***I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with....***
Hart,
I'm not even going to get into the facts and figures and who is or isn't etc.
However I will address your statement by saying that my experience with Mr Steve Dusheck has always been wonderful! Not only is he one of the most innovative minds in magic but also one of the most generous, even after being ripped off as much as he has! Where as Steve has been extremely kind and giving to me (and many others) I doubt I could be as gracious if I were in his shoes!
As for waiting for things to pan out......... I will ask once again, does it take this long for T11 to gather the facts they should have gathered BEFORE releasing DD or is it taking this long to get certain ducks in a row for CYA purposes?
Just my opinion!
Mick
Hart Keene
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 20:09, MickeyPainless wrote:
***I've heard through the grapevine, Steve D. can be difficult to deal with....***
Hart,
I'm not even going to get into the facts and figures and who is or isn't etc.
However I will address your statement by saying that my experience with Mr Steve Dusheck has always been wonderful! Not only is he one of the most innovative minds in magic but also one of the most generous, even after being ripped off as much as he has! Where as Steve has been extremely kind and giving to me (and many others) I doubt I could be as gracious if I were in his shoes!
As for waiting for things to pan out......... I will ask once again, does it take this long for T11 to gather the facts they should have gathered BEFORE releasing DD or is it taking this long to get certain ducks in a row for CYA purposes?
Just my opinion!
Mick


Just want to say that I have never met Steve D. in person. I was simply stating hearsay(from another thread and a few anonymous folks). But isn't that what all of you are doing regarding this theory 11 fiasco?
-Hart

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Hart Keene
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Just want to say that I am not taking sides though it might appear so. Just didn't want rumors to taint good people. Since I have "appeared" to be on one side of the fence I will now step over to other side by saying that I do find it funny that it is still for sale. If I was in charge I might pull it for the time being...but I'm not in charge...
-Hart

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MickeyPainless
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***But isn't that what all of you are doing regarding this theory 11 fiasco?***

What, going on hearsay? No, I can't speak for anyone else but I have based my opinions on stated and written facts.
Mick
Chad Barnard
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Hart,

I'm sorry you missed the 12to14 page thread that originally discussed this. It is in cleaning now by Café staff and hopefully will be put back up soon. Please excuse those of us that find your arguments ridiculous since they have already been disproved by Steve Duschek and Marc Desouza (among countless others).

Your asinine comment regarding my comment that the co-chair of ethics for the SAM came on here and said it was a rip-off, I guess was your attempt at sarcasm. It fell short.

Kenner doesn't really have that great a reputation (on this board at least) for ethics. Since he took an idea of Jonathan Townsend's added a few things (including an unpublished Latta move for the last vanish that he didn't ask permission to publish) and released it without permission.

In his original ThreeFly pamphlet he states that it had been a pet routine of his since 1986. I find this funny since all documentation from Jonathan says that he showed it to Kenner in 1987. How could it have been a pet routine of his a year before Jonathan showed it to him?

If you watch Kenner's history of ThreeFly on COINvention you'll see that he said it was some time after Jonathan showed it to him that he perfected his routine. So this would put his dating in the instructions off even more

We've done our research, now you do yours.
jimbowmanjr
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 20:29, Hart Keene wrote:

Just want to say that I have never met Steve D. in person. I was simply stating hearsay(from another thread and a few anonymous folks). But isn't that what all of you are doing regarding this theory 11 fiasco?


But you don't want any good reputations tainted here right? I am disappointed that Lee hasn't come forward which is who I have heard gone to great lengths to fight this type of thing from happening period. I am sure there are at least two guys involved with that place that are biting their tongues and unplugging their keyboards to avoid responding to this issue publicly. I hope something is done about this soon and I thought the product would have at least been pulled by now. Even JB said they bagged an entire run of Guardian decks because they weren't the way they wanted them, which I would wager is worth quite a bit more than whatever stock they have sitting on the shelves for this release.

At any rate we can only state out disappointment so many times until it becomes repetitive and ends up falling on deaf ears. I will let my wallet do the talking from now on.

--Jim
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