What in your opinion is the best holdout machine on the market today?

Jay Leslie has one, Riser models are tops in quality, etc.

Not the old ones, and no 'leased models'

I don't care, who, what, or why, just your preference if you own one or not.

Just toss it out there. And no picking at the opinions.

If I wanted a good silent hold out, I would contact one of the thousands of robot hobbyists, who make things like this for fun and give him a commission to make one. http://www.robotstore.com/store/product.......catid=11
They use things like Shape Memory Alloys and silent motors and stuff today. My guess is they could make a good silent holdout cheaply.

How about a nano-robot running up and down you arm. No straps...just some programming

The Beanshooter is hard to beat for cost and usability.

It has to be an original Charlie Miller/Bill Gusias (or accurate copy), the ones made from referencing pictures are missing one or two important design elements that you can only be aware of if you get your hands on an original design.

What about a simple bug? usable, hard to detect, and you don't get caught with the device on you.

I can honestly say though, that I have no experience with anything (thats right, anything...)

Ben

I've always wondered what you do with a loaded bug when you've got to use the gents room?
Just leave it at the table?

I'm making up a dozen Beanshooters to Gusias's original design and almost half of them are spoken for. It still seems to be a popular design.

I have found that magicians aren't really hip to the Beanshooter because the 'thief' (or 'beanie' as Paul Chosse calls it) has to be worked in what for magicians is an unnatural hand position. For card players holding and looking at their cards with both hands it's completely natural, but for magi it's not a hand position they get into without drawing attention.

The other thing about the Beanshooter is that it's designed to do one thing, and one thing well. That's to hold out playing cards.
So many holdouts try to do duty with magnetic coins, paper clips, popcorn, and anything else you can attach to the end of them.
Some of the 'new' hold outs (aimed at magicians) can hold out everything BUT a playing card.

The one design I'd buy in a heartbeat is one of Jim Risers ladders. Unfortunately, he hasn't made them in a few years and reading his website it looks as if he's not going to be making any more.

The Fitch/Kohler is sounds interesting, but a hold out is a personal thing and it's mandatory to at least see one before buying it. I'm not holding my breath waiting to get a look at an F/K though, as folks who have them don't go around showing them to people.

I have wondered if any hustlers use the F/K, or if it's all magicians? If it's as good as it's made out to be there's got to be at least one.

The Fitch Kohler holdout is a gravity style machine, and therefore pretty useless at a table.

Take care, Ian

You don't ever go to the bathroom when your out with a card. Taping a plastic fork under the table makes a great bug.

Why not Fun Tack ?....it looks like chewing gum which I sometimes found under a table

Fun tack also does not leave residue and is easily removed.

Thanks guys. I have been kicking around the idea of building a few jacobs ladders. It seems to me though the muscle mass of the fore arm determines if any will work just right. Back in the day when the martins, were the staple, there was an older gentleman that built his own machines, however they were measured and fitted to the user in a series of appointments. The service was about double the catalog cost, and he included a nice case like a musical instrument would go in, and some spare parts. I have only seen one laying in a beat up box and never had the chance to examine it closely. My wife and I drove out a couple hours to see the person selling that estate and it was gone. All we could find was some stretched out straps and a spare arm with a clip. I was pretty bummed cause that one would have been the best and only example I had ever seen. Also the knowledge to custom craft the device to the person was lost.

Doc, this was the guy with the 'pants' decker, and that equipment was gone. Of the machines he had, those two machines were the reason we traveled out there. I did come back with some of the old card marking/cutting stuff and a small tray of dice with about 10pr bricks and mis spots.Nothing really great though.

This one is designed by magicians for magicians, so it couldn't be included.

I thought a bit on this one and I still didn't like the move that was needed, though for the price its a good choice.

I suppose you would have to list what you were after in order to get there.

1. Noise free.....
2. Fully adjustable to fit any size of person.
3. Lower profile than the rest.
4. Probably shouldn't require tying your knees together under the table;-)
5. Would not use any 'known' movements, or funny/detectable moves.
6. Dry. No air/fluid.

Hard to say without more input.

One thing the Beanshooter often did was 'move' your sleeves (if your arms were bent) when you used the thief. Those who know the design will understand why.

I've added a small design change that goes on the users arm in addition to the device itself and makes the sleeves remain perfectly still when you work the Beanie. It's an additional item and doesn't add anything to the Beanshooter itself.

KingSD, the moves do bother some folks, no doubt about it.
I've also seen the Beanshooter used and it was invisible in the context of what else was happening with the user and their cards.
The price IS hard to beat compared to other hold-outs(that actually work).
You can get your hands on an old 'non-Gusias' Beanshooter for around $100.00, and get a new one true to Gusias's design for around $165.00.

The original Gusias Beanshooters are near impossible to find, and go for a lot more, just like his butterfly dice cups.

KingSD, if you do make some ladders, please put me on your short list of customers.
I believe we're nearby, I live to the north of you just across the border.

Next year may well be the year of the holdout. We've got some surprises in store for the FK Pro Holdout System. More important to this thread is Thomas Wayne, Rod The Hop and I have been working on a Kepplinger style machine with many improvements. Rod's been working the device in the "real world" for decades. His techniques are impossible to detect. Most of the new concepts come from Rod and the solutions come from Thomas.

From our point of view there are even more problems with existing technology than are listed in this thread.
There may be even more than we know but we've solved the ones we do know about.

As Forrest Gump says "That's all I have to say about that!"

Sorry Bob, you don't get off quite that easily!
Tell us more.......

Don't tell him anything Bob just hold out a while.

Ok Bob you stirred some interest. More please.

The designs I am looking over right now are in the collections of others so what can be had from them, will weigh heavy. I have a couple requests out to 'rent' some of the rarer machines and make measurements, photos, and draw shop plans. Depends on them.

I can tell you that over the years I've tried out zillions. I spent a day putting on Jay Marshall's collection of holdouts. He had about 25 of them, many designs I've never seen before or since and never in print.

I also used to sell holdouts for Bill Gusias. Bill's were expertly made but required a long break in period.

The bottom line is Rod The Hop had the two best holdouts I've ever seen. One was sold. He's still got the best one. What makes it so great. As in everything in life it's in the details. I've measured and taken photographs of many holdouts. The ratio's used in Rod's are unique and there's certain amount of wear that creates a looseness to it. Once you put it on it simply works like melted butter. It's very easy to use.

But Rod's lived with the device for decades and has come up with improvements and a wish list of changes he'd like to see. Thomas has solved the issues and taken Rod's wish list even farther than Rod had dreamed of. The new stuff bleeds over to uses other than card too!

We love holdouts. What's not to love...you have three arms and the audience only sees two...

Definitely sounds interesting Bob, if you can share it with us, what's the timeline on this project?