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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » ALEXANDRE Challenges Randi ... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Spellbinder
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If, as you claim, this is a real demonstration of a real power, why not set up your own close-to double blind experiment and videotape that? Go down to your local high school or college where there is a science lab and have one of the teachers examine and clean off the bottom of a glass with a glasscleaner ( I suspect earwax), then examine and clean the pen the same way. Finally, have the teacher set the pen on the bottom of the glass and put the whole thing under a bell jar (to isolate it from outside interference). Have a thermometer also inside the bell jar and a second one outside where they can be easily observed (to precluse thermal interference). Also have a galvanometer or some instrument that can detect magnetic fields set up next to the bell jar as well. Have the teacher stand between you and the bell jar and do your thing with a timer running. Then maybe Randi (and I and a few others on this forum) will take you somewhat seriously.
Professor Spellbinder

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HollyMental
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Quote:
On 2007-10-10 00:46, bdekolta wrote:
I think there is a big difference between drinking water and being baked in an oven.


There’s an active difference between going without food and baking in an oven, of course, but there is an overwhelming probability that the end result will be the same - death.

It’s simply unreasonable to fault Randi because he won’t imprison a man and starve him to death - because that’s what the poster is basically saying. He’s claiming Randi is unfair - and that the Million Dollar Challenge is fraudulent - because Randi refuses to risk a man’s life. That’s not reasonable.


Holly
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DJM
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It clearly says in the rules that no tests would be allowed that could end up with death. That's the problem, that many people here whine about Randi without even trying to do some research to see what it's all about.

Pretty lazy and unfair.
ALEXANDRE
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Quote:
On 2007-10-10 01:08, Spellbinder wrote:
If, as you claim, this is a real demonstration of a real power, why not set up your own close-to double blind experiment and videotape that? Go down to your local high school or college where there is a science lab and have one of the teachers examine and clean off the bottom of a glass with a glasscleaner ( I suspect earwax), then examine and clean the pen the same way. Finally, have the teacher set the pen on the bottom of the glass and put the whole thing under a bell jar (to isolate it from outside interference). Have a thermometer also inside the bell jar and a second one outside where they can be easily observed (to precluse thermal interference). Also have a galvanometer or some instrument that can detect magnetic fields set up next to the bell jar as well. Have the teacher stand between you and the bell jar and do your thing with a timer running. Then maybe Randi (and I and a few others on this forum) will take you somewhat seriously.


Ear wax? You've got to be kidding.

I'm quite honestly insulted by your suggestion that I may have used "magnets" or some kind of "outside interference" when I made clear on the video that these things were NOT used.

What you saw was real, I was there and that pen really fell, THREE times.

What other proof does Randi need? He's got the video and the proof of what was clearly on it, I even heard forensic investigators were hired to look at my video.

You may not take me seriously, but as long as the JRFE does, I'm fine ... and closer to my million!
Spellbinder
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Oh! My mistake! Yes, you TOLD us there were no magnets being used on the video, so obviously that rules that method out. And yes, you were the only one there, so naturally I should trust you and believe you have a true psychic power. But that means you would be able to perform it as I asked with no problem. But you are insulted that I ask this. Hmmmm. I hear a psychic vibe going "woo-woo-woo." I wonder what that means?
Professor Spellbinder

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Mark Rough
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Wait, I'm getting a feeling. . . Spellbinder has found a way to reproduce Alexandre's miracle. . . and . . . wait for it . . . it will be released in the next Wizard's Journal.

Raven

PS Can I have the million now?
What would Wavy do?
Subgenial
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Can I be serious here for a moment?
........err, no I can't!
Randi, coff up, I have already examined Alexandre's video with a ekatss(standard)-ip filter (used by film professionals, such as myself, to highlight any bogus goings on - such as wires and magnetic fields). Trust me, this IS real.

BTW, I have just bought your Black School book A, it is quite exeptional, and gives me real insight into your mind.
'Are we here?'
ALEXANDRE
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I have nothing to hide.

My abilitites speak for themselves on that video.

And just to make clear, I said there were NO MAGNETS, NO STRINGS, NO STOOGES, NO BLOWING, NO COMPRESSED AIR BLASTS!
Spellbinder
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Quote:
On 2007-10-10 15:30, Mark Raven wrote:
Wait, I'm getting a feeling. . . Spellbinder has found a way to reproduce Alexandre's miracle. . . and . . . wait for it . . . it will be released in the next Wizard's Journal.


Sorry to disappoint you. If I actually had the power to do that, it would not be used tippling pens off the bottoms of glasses. But my spectacular paranormal power, which I will use to snatch the million dollar prize right out from under Randi's nose, will be to show him how I can make inanimate non-living objects become imbued with life and go scampering about my body, up my sleeves and down my pants. I call this miracle, "Pom Pom Critters" and you'll find it in The Wizards' Journal #13. So easy, even Randi can do it.

Good luck collecting your million dollars, Alexandre.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

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ALEXANDRE
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Quote:
Sorry to disappoint you. If I actually had the power to do that, it would not be used tippling pens off the bottoms of glasses....


With all due respect, those of us with "abilities" must be careful in how we reveal them to the public, therefore, tipping a pen from the bottom of a glass is something people can handle, while other experiments might prove to be too psychologically damaging to the general public. Sort of like the Alien conspiracy ... the truth is most people just couldn't handle knowing there were Aliens about, it would cause mass hysteria. Same with my demonstrations.

And while I'm here...

Just got a call from the JRFE.

I had sent them not only the Million Dollar Challenge video, but other videos as well, as further proof of my abilities. So it looks like they have finally gotten around to viewing my "J ack Galloway Experiment" and they tell me it's so powerful and so real it might change the world if I release it to be viewed by the public.

I have realized that the JRFE talks a good game but I'm yet to see a red cent!
braveneil
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I have seen similar demo by a shaolin monk who uses joss stick and earthen vessel instead. He did it twice right before my eyes. It was a real shock to me when the joss stick fell to the ground the first time. The method was then revealed to me - chi. Start by gathering sufficient chi at your stomach and point your navel directly at the target. Concentrate and imagine your navel opening up, sucking in the joss stick(at the tip). He knew I was still skeptical and did it again with the joss stick lited up and proceed with the second demo. This time I can clearly see the smoke drifting slowly towards his naval and the joss stick subsequently drops onto the ground. The monk did warned me that prolonged practices cause excess bloating and farting.

When I tried to practise it at home. My girlfriend thought what happened to me with those exagerated expanding and contracting on my stomach and find those movements seductive.

May the chi be with you.
Oyama
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ALEXANDRE- I have watched all your videos and enjoy reading your posts. You have inspired me and I hope many others to make and post videos of their own performances. Many here talk a big game, but we never get to see them perform. You are a TRUE showman. I hope you get your million.
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
mota
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Well, I have written to Randi in the past. When I was a young, teenage male he was quite friendly. The last letter was a bit more adversarial, though to be fair to Randi I was more challenging to him and was no longer a young, naive boy.

I doubt if I were to write to him about his proof of the money being available I would receive anything but a juvenile, snide response similar to our last exchange so...

Would someone actually write to Randi concerning proof of this million dollars and post the proof it on this thread? That would put this to rest...

Holly, how about you? Nothing personal, just picked you as you seem a person he would respond favorably to.

Let's see this proof of a million...it could well be there but I haven't seen it yet.
DJM
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Mota, did you even try to read the section of the challenge on his website? Everything is written there.
mota
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DJM, I didn't mean to ignore you...I actually went to edit the reply to put you as an option but didn't want to confuse the message.

I have looked at Randi's site in the past and am not assured...

From section 1 of his challenge:

I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 [One Million Dollars/US] to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions.

OK...on to section 9:

One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account" as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail.

So my assurance is his foundation's personal accountant (I believe the firm is Goldman-Sachs)...as we know from Enron a big name accounting firm would never lie for a client.

It does create a problem...how to further document this. I don't have an answer for this. The money could well be there, I just don't trust his documentation for the reason I don't trust a hustler. Randi is a non-scientist asking to prove something scientifically, a fact he always dodges.

However I do know this...I wouldn't try to beat a carnie at a razzle-dazzle, a street hustler at three card monte, or Randi at his own game. He may be a lot of things but he has made it clear over the years he has no intention of losing. He is not stupid.

From section 11:

JREF will not entertain any demand that the prize money be deposited in escrow, displayed in cash, or otherwise produced in advance of the test being performed.

Just call me paranoid...I don't believe Randi can be trusted.

His complete "I always have an out" quote is, ""Concerning the challenge, I always have an 'out': I'm right!"

An interesting quote.

As an aside, I have seen posted that Randi keeps the right to keep testing indefinitely but I have not seen that at his site. If someone can document that it would be interesting but I haven't seen it there.
DJM
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http://www.randi.org/joom/index.php?opti......temid=37


3. Prize Money

3.1 I heard the prize money doesn’t really exist and that it’s all just a scam.

The short answer: The money is real.

The medium-length answer: The money is held in the form of immediately negotiable bonds held by Goldman Sachs, a highly respected investment firm. Anyone can verify that the money exists by requesting the information in writing from the JREF. They will in turn forward you the most recent account statement from Goldman Sachs.

The long answer: The JREF is a 'tax exempt' organization, so they are required by law to have a level of financial transparency. That means that the public can request things like an annual report and copies of JREF's 990 (the tax return non-profits file). Go to http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php (search for Randi, 2005 is here.) to look up JREF's 990. Contained within these types of documents is enough information to verify that the organization does indeed have special assets in a reserved account to cover the prize, should it ever be won. The contract between the claimant and JREF is binding enough that the JREF must pay the prize if someone wins it. This is a published, legal obligation, not just a casual offer. We have no choice in the matter. As a savvy applicant, all you need to do is verify that the organization has the funds to cover the prize. Also, if JREF were not able to hold up its end of the bargain, the IRS would investigate and pull the JREF's tax exempt status. It would mean severe penalties for the JREF, and Randi himself would also be personally liable and subject to potential incarceration. Rest assured: The money is there.

Long answer, continued: The JREF prize fund is maintained in a way that is similar to an endowment fund. Non-profits often create reserves of assets called endowments to build up enough money to take care of the organization in the case of bad financial times, or to save up money for a project down the road, like building a new facility or starting a large new program that would require a lot of capital. Endowment funds are held in a separate Goldman Sachs account designated, "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account." This prevents the JREF from accidentally spending the prize money. It is never a good idea to just let large sums of money sit in a savings account for years and years, so most non-profits invest their endowment funds. The way they invest it is really not important. JREF invests in bonds, which is fine. If a claimant wins the prize, it must be awarded within ten days, as per the Challenge rules and the legally binding contract entered into when the application was signed.

I know you are going to ask, "What if the bonds cannot be easily liquidated?" If the JREF did not pay a winning claimant in a reasonable amount of time, we would be open to a lawsuit for breach of contract. The claimant will be paid. The JREF states that the funds are held in immediately negotiable bonds so that a claimant can feel at ease about the ability of the JREF to pay. The fact that the JREF will do so is going above and beyond the requirements of the law and the generally accepted practices of good, responsible non-profits. It is an enormous act of good faith on JREF's part. The million dollars exist. Arguments to the contrary are utterly pointless, and they will not be entertained by the JREF.

3.2 I still don’t buy it.

It's important to realize that if at this point you still doubt that the money exists, your doubt is in the entire American bond system in general and Goldman Sachs specifically, and not with the JREF. There is really no more evidence the JREF can provide you. For concerns regarding Goldman Sachs, please inquire at their Web site, http://www.gs.com/.

Should you remain unconvinced of the existence of the prize funds, you are free to choose not to apply. The JREF will under no circumstances go beyond the aforementioned measures in providing proof of the prize fund's existence. As stated clearly in the Challenge rules, "The JREF will not cater to such vanities."

3.3 If I pass the formal test and win the Challenge, how will I be paid?

The first $10,000 of the prize money will be paid by check, as stated in the Challenge rules, immediately upon successful demonstration of the claim. Arrangements will be made with Goldman Sachs to liquidate the remaining $990,000 and present it to the winner within ten days of passing the formal test.
mota
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Good answer...I do doubt the bond system and think much of the financial structure of these organizations is a shell game but as far as those rules go it is there on paper.

For example see this:

http://www.financialnews-us.com/?page=us......45480573

The opening quote: "Goldman Sachs will attempt to defend itself at the start of next month over allegations that it withheld information about a company's finances from investors. IFE Fund, a Belgium-based investment company, is suing the bank for losses of up to €100m ($127m). IFE alleged yesterday in a High Court hearing in London that Goldman Sachs had misrepresented the financial state of a company the fund then invested in, Bloomberg reports."

I consider the financial structure of these accounting firms to be consistent with the ethics of James Randi.
ALEXANDRE
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I understand the money concerns, but the issue for me is not the money, but phenomenal ability, and I have proved it with my Million Dollar Challenge video, and since with the Skeptic's Challenge video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uLmldD49Tk ) where I have placed feathers around the pen and a scarf over my nose and mouth to further prove my talent.

If the JRFE does not accept this challenge, that's fine, because there will be no denying the Memory Tranference I will demonstrating on video soon.

I feel I'm close to winning the challenge and predict I will have a picture to prove it soon.
coupcoupdaddy
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HOORAY!
foreign correspondent, z and lt



inner being worker
Oyama
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ALEXANDRE- YOU THE MAN!I can't wait for your other video. Keep them coming.
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
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