Ethics. Each and every one of us is the sum total of our actions in this life. We must live with who we tell the world we are. You can hide some of your choices, but no one can conceal who they are for long. Time and Truth walk hand in hand. If you lie, the lie will eventually be seen. If you lie, you will be known as a liar. People do not trust liars, even when they tell the truth. There is no law against lying. Telling a lie anywhere, other than under oath, is not likely to be punished formally. The only incentive to exhibit ethical behavior is the knowledge that those you deal with today, may be the ones you deal with tomorrow.

Expertly put, Drew. I agree wholeheartedly.



No! No no no no no no no no no no!

My incentive to live an ethical life (what Socrates would have called a "good" life) is that my life is...well...to quote Drew: "the sum total of [my] actions in this life".

This "sum" might be apparent to others, it is true. But will I care about that when I'm dead? The "sum", however, is also apparent to *me*(at least before I'm dead). What do I want this "sum" to be? That I am a piece of kaka? No. I want the "sum" to be that I have lived a "good" life. (Whatever that may be.)

That is my incentive. Not to please others. Nor to never tell a lie. Nor to never cheat at cards. (Right, C.?) My incentive is that my life, when I approach the end of it, pleases me, because the "sum total" of my life is that I was a decent dude, and that's what I wanted to be. I took care of my family and didn't cheat on my wife and I played baseball (or even soccer) with my son on days when I didn't feel like it, because these are what I find important.

Anything else is religion. Which is cool. But not compelling to me and many others.

Of course, neither is what I just wrote above. Some might not care if the "sum total" of their life was that they were a piece of scum and a liar and a cheat and abused puppies and small children. What can compel them to be "good"? Only a community or society with rules and the power to enforce those rules. Otherwise, there is nothing.

That's it. There are three options: 1) ethical because religion requires it; 2) ethical because the community requires it; 3) ethical because I wanna be.

Anything else is a bunch of hoohoo.

And, as Drew might say, it's really just that simple.

Jeff

Good responses. Here is another question from the blog:


FEES - Some performers have set fees for certain shows, others are very flexible in their pricing and try to get as much as they can for each individual gig.

Is it okay to charge more for a gig if you think you can get it? Or do you run the risk that bookers might talk to each other and wonder why one paid $200 and the other $2000 for exactly the same show?

If you have set prices, do agents take their commissions out of your fee (which is good for the agent) or have them add their commission on top of your fee (which is bad for the agent because the client is paying extra for their service).

Is it okay to ditch a gig if you get a higher paid gig on the same day?

If you do that, is it okay if you send the first client a replacement magician?

If you do that, can you take a commission from the replacement magicians fee... and how much?

If you do that, should you explain to the client the real reason you won't be showing up, or make up an excuse instead like "I had a bad back"... then hope the client doesn't find out you were performing somewhere else on the night?

If you get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (like a TV show or a 6 month contract) and you can do it because of a previously booked gig, do you just cancel the earlier show, replace yourself with another magician, or explain the situation to the client and abide with whatever they decide?

My fee is my fee, I have no idea where that falls in "ethics". I don't care how an agent gets me that fee. Truth be known I don't work with too many of them any more.

It is not ok to ditch a gig for any reason. If I have to send a replacement, (which I would ONLY do in case of death in family, or extreme sickness, which to me is NOT ditching the gig. Just to clarify.) I would never take a fee.

In the last case I would explain to the client and ask them how to procede. It has HAPPENED to me and this is what I did.

Perhaps I should have said "outside incentive".

Tim, don't know if I am included in the address of your last post, but I included my beliefs on those subjects in my first reply to this thread.

The reason I have posed these questions is that, at least here in Australia, more and more "magicians" are springing up who's sole aim in life is fame and fortune by any means possible.

They are flourishing.

As a result, others who see them succeeding follow their leads.

I know it's easy to say "they won't last long doing business like that" but nowadays, I disagree. I think it is possible they will be able to continue for years and make more money than you or I ever could.

I could never do business that way no matter what the reward.

Obviously they can, and do.

It's sad the way some things change.

If you do not charge what you are worth then no one loses but you. Fact is, people will tend to hire the most expensive person that fits in their budget. There may be a lot of magicians working on the cheap, but the real question is, are they actually taking work away from anyone, and more importantly, will their clients want to spend more money on some one better next time? Were I you, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. If someone is charging a whole lot less than you, odds are they want to be you some day.

Actually Drew, your "fact is" qualifier many would probablty disagree with you.

Most working with a budget, will hire depending on wheather they really want the magic. Their passion for having it will decide how much they will spend. For example a party planner at an office who was told to get a magician, will use whatever budget she is told. BUT told to get a magician and a band, and she REALLY wants the band, she will hire the cheapest magician, and then transfer that money to get the band she wants.

There are so many variables you just can't make a blanket statement like "fact is people will hire the most expensive person who fits their budget". It just does not hold water.

Tim, these people come and go. They alwasy have and always will. Some will flourish for a while, but in general they go away.

Interesting well reasoned response here http://magicunlimited.typepad.com/magic_......esp.html

[quote]On 2007-10-11 12:12, C. Loubard wrote:

Oh, is that what you think?

[quote]On 2007-11-03 12:56, kihei kid wrote:


And what does that mean to you about whether or not they get to feed the worms?

Can't get into it here as the Café does not allow it, however this reasoning is flawed.

Okay, let's keep this to "how can we respect each other's work and advance our own work and somehow increase the level of dignity in our craft" type stuff.

Basic business practices like "not dissing your client" should not be too much of a lively or heated debate in this service industry. Clients talk. A bad outcome for one can greatly affect others interest in hiring you later - right?