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Clock Elite user Los Angeles, CA 460 Posts |
I was at Universal Studios Hollywood yesterday at I went to the "Special Effects Soundstage" Show where they show the audience how the do different effects in films such as green screen/sound/etc. On the horror section of the show, they invite someone to come forward and be a part in the show. They had a camera with a overhead projector, and one of the attendents proceded to perform the knife thru arm illusion on the volunteer (the audience screamed and shreaked). Thereafter, they showed the audience the exact workings of the prop!!
My point is, 150 people were in that room...that show is always running and must have at least 30 shows or more a day, everyday. I just don't think that's cool! |
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JasonB Regular user 174 Posts |
I can't agree or disagree with you. But I find it interesting that that happens and with the numbers you stated that makes for a lot of people who've seen the exposure. The interesting question is if you did the effect day in and day out in your show. How many people would say they knew how it was done or how much murmuring would you hear in the audience? Just a question.
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Mr. Clock:
I totally agree with you!! It aint'cool. But you know what? Magicians don't care. I tried to open an exposure forum a few months back here on the Café and everybody thought I was crazy and nobody supported me. And ended up in a very heated war like thread. For example: The amazing jonathan night after night for many years including national TV does a very entertaining card manipulation sequence and at the end he fully exposes the black art behind the cards for a cheap laugh and everybody here thought it was ok because of the entertainment value. For me that is exposure and this was even allowed on world's greatest magic and nobody complained. So, Clock I sympathize with you but unfortunately we are a minority. Thanks, Reynold |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Grey area this one..
I can see both sides logic.. Hmm..
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-07 00:57, reynold wrote: It's not that we don't care, it's that we have to know which battles to fight. So how would you go about stopping Universal from exposing this effect? A petition? A firm Letter of protest? A stop and desist letter from your attorney? In reality there is virtually nothing we can do to stop exposure of this type. Corporations and Non-Magicians are not restrained nor compelled to obey our so-called Code of Ethics. It is far better to learn to deflect and live with the occasional piece of exposure than to puff ones self up in righteous indignation when ever it occurs as it makes us look petty.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
I'm guessing that Universal would say that this was a " movie stunt" long before magicians were using it. I don't know the history of this but think it may well be true.
Reynold... there have been many many posts against Penn and Teller and other names in magic who expose at the expense of other performers.... so you see... we do in care. Best, Tim |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
I'm confused as to what version of knife through arm they are exposing. There are many gimmicked knives that are readily available at joke shops/displays. They are the ones where the blade retracts or the ones with the "u" in the blade. Both are commonly known (the you idea is used in many Halloween props like the arrow thru head or the meat cleaver in the head).
I'm not saying I totally agree with the exposures, but as stated above. Pick your battles. |
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Clock Elite user Los Angeles, CA 460 Posts |
The same prop Amazing Jonathan uses. I hadn't seen it sold as a halloween prop before.
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Mr. Payne:
I am sure the President of the SAM or IBM can make a petition as an organization towards Universal Studios. Obviously it would be a good faith attempt because legally there is nothing to be done. And even then there is no guarantee of having them remove the exposé but at least is a try. Tim: I started a thread sometime ago about this (I believe this was when you took a time off from the Café) and was amazing how magicians here defended the amazing jonathan, carl ballantine (when he cuts the thread after levitating the lid from the basket, Dai vernon when he exposes the false deposit in his cup and ball routine and many other performers that have done some exposures. Their argument was "magic is not the secret is the entertainment value". I say crap magic is a balance of secret and entertainment, one doesn't exist without the other. Thanks, Reynold |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
I think that the knife may have been invented by the fellow who is represented in the show. He worked for Universal at the time I think, so it may be theirs to expose or not. That's how I see it.
They also reveal things like laytex masking and the making of fake blood...All things that they had a hand in inventing.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Laszlo Csizmadi Special user From Hell 868 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-07 23:35, Slim King wrote: It's wrong Slim. So after he sold lots of knives he has the right to reveal the secrets because he is the inventor? Just wonder what would all magicicians say if Jim reveal the Origami to the public who bought for thousands of dollar? |
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Well, Laci you are not that far away from the truth. Jim published the book "Hiding the Elephant" open to the public and now "The Magic of Alan Wakeling" paperback edition is also at Borders.
Thanks, Reynold |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Not just a Halloween prop Clock, but sold year round. Not as well made as the original, but cheap plastic versions.
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Caveat Lector Elite user 493 Posts |
These special effect knives have been being used for many many years in film and on stage long before any magician decided to use it. It was not invented originally for magic use it was simply a special effect. I am sure some hack magician saw it and decided to put it out and make some money off of it. So, who is really to blame, the special effects artists who invented it or the magician who stole it from them and then sold it to us?
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
www.underworldent.com www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic |
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Caveat lector: I am not sure, but I believe this was used for magic first because I think it is explained in Reginald Scott's "Discovery of Witchcraft" and as you know is the first book written on magic. But I could be wrong, anybody out there could verify this?
Thanks, Reynold Ps. Camera Trickery was invented by a magician (this is true) so universal studios owe us one. Just a funny thought. |
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RVH Magic Special user 877 Posts |
Yes, it's in discovery of witchcraft.(a knife with a cut out)
The one where the gimmick slides in & out of the handle was invented by a magician (Ricardo) If they explain a version where they just do a switch of knives: A 'real one' for 'one with a cut out' - this seems acceptable, if they however explain Ricardo's version then this is magic exposure. the magician who invented camera trickery was Georges Méliès |
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JasonB Regular user 174 Posts |
I believe that Reynold is correct. The other point is that the illustrations from "Discovery of Witchcraft" were shown on, I believe "The History of Magic", one of those specials. So that would have exposed the basic principal to many more than Universal ever will.
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Rafael: Thank you.
Caveat lector: We were first, so they owe us. Please get your facts straight. Thanks, Reynold |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
My opinion of exposure has changed over the years. You can buy a magic book for under twenty dollars that exposes hundreds of magic tricks. If you walk into Daytona magic you will see hundreds of TT's near the front door. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out for free.
It's about $80 a day to see Universal....Does that $80 entitle you to this one exposure?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
JasonB: This is what I don't get. The person producing that TV special must have hired magicians and magic consultants and these people provided the book. Couldn't they prevented those pages to be presented? In the "Prestige" movie, Ricky Jay was the consultant. I am sure the producers didn't know about the vanishing birdcage, they asked Ricky "We need to expose something up the sleeve, what do you suggest?"
Same thing happened in the movie "A Night at the museum" They must hired a magician and asked "we need to expose a simple trick, what can we do? and the magic consultant gave him the thumb tip. If we don't get tough this will keep happening. I will recently perform the "bullet catch" and I found a video documentary about Chung Ling Soo's death and I wanted to show the video before my act. To my surprise the whole method for Ling Soo's Bullet Catch was clearly explained in the video which is intended for lay people. I am sure the producers didn't know the method unless a magic consultant contributed to it. One last example: I am heading to Miami tomorrow to appear in one of the most prestigious hispanic talk show "Despierta America" and they requested me that every magician that goes to the show after performing his routine, he must reveal a simple magic for the TV audience. I declined and told them that is against the magic's code of ethics and that the best I could do was a "sucker effect" where I apparently showed the method and then give them an extra "kick" and they accepted. If we don't defend our artform nobody else will. thanks, Reynold |
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