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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Funny thing at my son's school (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Josh the Superfluous
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You should have concluded with "I keep the guns tucked safely behind a bunch of beer cans. He'd have to drink himself sick and move a grenade launcher, before he could even reach a loaded one.".
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
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Josh Riel
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Balducci, my son is 10, he has had a Steven's Favorite .22 of his own since he was 6. Although I keep them all safely put away, he is quite capable of using any of my guns (My shotgun would place him 3 feet back on his rump though, It's a Stagecoach type double Barrel 12 gauge and rather light)

I don't care if I had him custom fitted with a shoulder holster to go with His Desert Eagle .50, the casing he found wasn't his.

If Garrett knew who's it was, then they certainly could ask him. But how the hell would Beth or I know?

And to say to my wife that they knew it wasn't Garrett's, and then ask her if we had guns seemed rather stupid, and then to ask for a meeting..... either way, I think they have considered the matter dropped. I imagine, I made it clear enough that unless they had a reason to ask about something unrelated to school they probably shouldn't.

Payne, I think gun control is a good thing, and a waiting period for some guns are a fine idea, but the rules are being made by the uneducated in too many cases.

There's a big problem, unfortunately the answer is beyond me. Education shouldn't be viewed as dangerous, but some education should be given by parents. American parent's (In America at least) are too freaking lazy to be bothered teaching their kids. "Dump 'em off at school , let the teacher handle it".
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
rossmacrae
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Quote:
On 2007-10-09 10:55, Josh Riel wrote:

I made it clear enough that unless they had a reason to ask about something unrelated to school they probably shouldn't.

It's about time somebody started saying that.

Quote:
Education shouldn't be viewed as dangerous.

Genuine education is always dangerous, and sometimes the results are disastrous ... but if my kid brings home ideas I find challenging, even dead wrong or offensive, I need to engage the ideas instead of trying to prohibit his exposure to them. That's what the "marketplace of ideas" is all about, that's what it's like to raise full human beings instead of little clones of myself.
kregg
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ---C.S. Lewis
POOF!
ClintonMagus
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Tell them what Steven Wright told the IRS - "My friend, Jiggs Casey, has built a nuclear weapon, and I would appreciate it if you didn't call me anymore..." Smile
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Tom Bartlett
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Remember, it will be the good son that turn his father in for his thoughts.

Socialism is incremental, they take one small piece of freedom at a time, until its all gone.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Big Jeff
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Right you are Tom. Remember when they got smoking banned on planes and they said they weren't taking away your right to smoke just that you can't smoke on airplanes. Then smoking sections in restuarants and now no smokling in ANY building and you can't smoke in a car if you have kids with you or in a park or in your apartment. It takes them a long time but they are getting what they want, one step at a time.

Same thing with gun control.

Warning to you nonsmokers(I don't smoke) and non gun owners, if you don't stand up to them now it will be to late when they start to ban something you DO care about.

Who are they? They are the ones, republican and democrat, who want to conrol your life and tell you what's good for you because they think you are to STUPID to make decisions on your own.
gaddy
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Would it have been a better thing if they had been flip about the whole thing and not bothered to check up on the situation? They asked Josh a question, then he answered it, then they dropped the issue...

So... What's the threat to democracy, baseball and mom's apple pie here?

Jeez, the sabre rattling in this place!
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Josh Riel
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My issue: They knew it wasn't from my son. They asked my wife if we had guns, they wanted to talk to us about it.


The first issue should have precluded the following issues. I solved the issues by being a forthright ***.

There is a bigger issue. However, I am not too worried. I always have violence as an option.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Tom Bartlett
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Have people stopped reading? Or have they been so completely brained by our government schools system, that they can not see the similarities in our country with George Orwell's "1984"?
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Josh Riel
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I see the same thing many do in this insidious little situation. If this were a one time, one place deal, there would be no issue. This is an American problem.

But listen, Big Jeff was right (May the god I don't believe in forgive me). This isn't a Democrat, or Republican thing. It is certainly a government thing. We have given our freedoms away, we have allowed ourselves to believe that we don't really even need them.

#1 We have lost our freedom of speech, we are now allowed to speak, as long as we don't cross a line. What is the possible punishment?

#2 we have allowed a loophole that would take away our right to an attorney and trial.

#3 (Should probably be #1.2): We have given up our right to privacy

#4 we have lost our right to keep and bear arms long ago, now we have "Yes with an if, no with a but" right.

We are in a situation where the current, or future president could claim a State of Emergency" and cancel the vote for a new president. Whether you're a R or a D or don't even vote. That all should scare the bejeezus out of you.

I didn't really start this to point to the fact that the greatest Country is crumbling because of us. I started it because I was quite put out that a teacher decided she was going to flex her muscles at me. Needless to say she keeps her sleeves down now.



Although, I still felt it was warranted to have a nice and friendly meeting with the Principle, Vice Principal, My sons Teacher, my wife and I. It is today as a matter of fact. I want them all in the same room together to understand my point (Because the teacher had decided to have another, what she thought was secret, go at this situation.

We have nothing to fear if we all stand up for what is right and don't back down from those things that are important. Regardless of the Government we will always be as strong and free as we are or choose to become.


I must apologize for being serious..... this makes me feel all dirty.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Rupert Bair
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I suggest you take a big automatic to the principals office and tell him you think guns are cool and your kid is cool, and he has the right to defend him self...with ammo...maybe one day he can have a gun too.
Big Jeff
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Josh if you agree with me I must be wrong.
Josh the Superfluous
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Josh #2,
When a beer bottle has a big N-A on it, it means ***no alcohol***. Drink some cough medicine and try making those points again. Your not the guy I know and.... I uh... know.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-10-19 01:29, Josh Riel wrote:
My issue: They knew it wasn't from my son. They asked my wife if we had guns, they wanted to talk to us about it.

I only have your posts to go by, and a lot of detailed information is missing. So I don't know exactly what to think.

I'm not sure whether or not you told us how they knew that the casing wasn't yours.

Were they to think that just based on the say so of a 10 year old? When guns are possibly involved, I think it would be irresponsible for the teacher to believe any 10 year old without checking up on the story.

Why would he even say "it isn't one of ours"? Was he implying that it might easily have been, and next time will be? Does he routinely bring weapons and shells to class? Could the teacher have interpreted this as a verbal threat of some sort?

I'm not blaming your son for anything he did, but I can certainly see how the teacher could have some reason to be concerned and at the very least make sure that you are aware of your son's activities. Maybe it is wise for them to also see what sort of guns your child has access to ... some Mother was in the news just the other day for supplying her child with automatic weapons, and he was planning a school assault ... so don't say that doesn't happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301379,00.html

Maybe the school DID overreact in some sense by calling a meeting, but I think you might have also overreacted a little at the start when the teacher and principal were just making some commonsense follow-up checks.

Having said all of the above, I do believe you've given up freedoms in your country in recent years. But I'm not sure this situation you described at your son's school is really representative of that.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Tom Bartlett
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Josh, Your just darn lucky Janet Reno is not still Attorney General. Smile
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
stoneunhinged
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Balducci, I wouldn't consider this legitimate follow-up. The boy brought a bullet casing to the teacher because he found it. The principal then wants to talk to the parents. This is a non-sequiter. The boy did something he is *supposed* to do, and causes a minor **** storm by doing it.

If my son were to find a hypodermic needle in the schoolyard, I would want him to take it to his teacher. If I then got a phone call from the principal, wanting to talk about heroine use in our fair city--and by the way, I don't happen to be a junkie, do I?--I would be seriously perturbed. The unwanted message being given to the children is: don't report what you see or find, because you might be suspected of wrongdoing.

In this case, the problem is worse, because there is the implication that anyone who owns guns is a potential threat to a school.

I stand by my first post in this thread in which I said that this principal is in all probability a confused person of very low intelligence who thinks he is doing the right thing and has no idea how far off, how outrageous, how offensive he is being. And I hope Josh told him this in terms he could understand.

Jeff
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-10-20 04:04, stoneunhinged wrote:
Balducci, I wouldn't consider this legitimate follow-up. The boy brought a bullet casing to the teacher because he found it. The principal then wants to talk to the parents. This is a non-sequiter. The boy did something he is *supposed* to do, and causes a minor **** storm by doing it.

Please reread my earlier post. WE know what the boy was thinking and that he did something he is "supposed" to do, as we have his Dad here to explain his actions to us. I'm not sure, from what has been said by Josh, that the TEACHER necessarily knew what the boy was thinking. One can imagine various scenarios, some of which could be perceived as being threatening and warranting follow-up.

Playing devil's advocate with your hypodermic example ... I hope your teacher would check up and make you aware of what happened. What if your child accidentally pricked himself with the needle, but didn't think to tell that to the teacher? Wouldn't you now like to know about his finding the needle, so that you could quiz him about what happened, learn that he exposed himself to the danger of receiving some communicable disease, and take the appropriate action?

Another hypothetical situation .... what if you WERE a drug addict, and the boy was turning in the needle as a 'cry for help' to get help for his dad, with a made up story? Well, if you were an addict I can see how you may not like the teacher to follow-up, but I think the teacher would be right in doing so.

Lastly, if the boy turned in the dirty needle with the comment 'It's not one of ours' I would _really_ hope the teacher would follow-up. [This last comment is a joke.]
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
stoneunhinged
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Balducci, I understood your previous post. I just didn't make *my* point very well. My point was that it doesn't matter whether the teacher knew what "we know" or not. My point was that jumping from finding something--anything at all--to a conclusion that the kid brought it from home is disingenuous and unfair, and would have the unintentional effect of kids *not* turning in things they find innocently. What bothers me about the whole story is the lack of appreciation for Josh's son's basic honesty and correct behavior--instead he becomes (indeed Josh himself becomes) suspect for doing a good deed.

As far as whether the teacher should inform me that my son found a hypodermic, you are right that the teacher ought to inform me--but only because of the potential danger that he might have pricked himself, or because there might be some bad people hanging around the school yard that the kids should avoid, but not because his finding it is in any way suspicious.

Your last hypothetical situation--that I might indeed be a drug addict--does require a bit of action on the teacher's part. But he or she would certainly need some further evidence before jumping to such a conclusion, don't you think? I don't know what such evidence might be, but it seems warranted.

On the other hand, I must admit that being a teacher is tough these days, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt. It's the principal who should know better than to raise a stink in this case. He should give the kid a "Good Citizenship" award for turning the casing into his teacher.

Jeff
Josh Riel
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Quote:
On 2007-10-19 19:01, Big Jeff wrote:
Josh if you agree with me I must be wrong.


No, your right this time, I understand how this feeling could be strange and confusing for you. Smile


Anyway.

O.K. I will explain... no there is too much, let me sum up.

The teacher had nothing to go on there than my son's word.
My son, with all his faults is a very honest kid, he will tell on himself when he does something wrong. This is bizarre behavior that his teachers have all commented on.

As I wasn't there all I have to go on is what his teacher told me, and then my son later backed up.

He found a shell casing on the ground, he recognized that it wasn't ours. Perhaps he just wanted the teacher to be fully assured it wasn't ours, or he wanted to seem smart by being able to describe the difference between ours and the one he found, I do not know.

From what I gather from the teacher, she saw him pick it up. Either way, she did as she should have done. She told the principle what was found and how, then she told us.

The ensuing questions and how they were handled are my issue.

This is not meant to be representative of our countries problem. I certainly believe their are problems, but this is not a cross section view.

And Josh #2, I have to say this sort of thread hurts me terribly, I need to drink and make fun of other posts and posters.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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