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Irishghost Inner circle www.gaffguy.com 1228 Posts |
Even if the coins were not plastic the routine sucks. With CFWM the hands never come close while they fly across. Why are they still in business, we all should boycot stores that sell their products.
I get to gaff some cool stuff for some cool people
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emanmagic5 Special user Toronto, Canada 614 Posts |
In the demo, they sound like metal...not plastic!
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Christopher Williams Inner circle Portsmouth, UK 4464 Posts |
Does he realise he can't even perform the effect himself? At one point, the hands come close, and it is meant to look like one coin is placed back into his left hand...but the coin goes nowhere near it, yet a coin appears!!! I have performed 3 Fly now for about 7 years, 4 years of U3F, and almost 2 years, my own version called Three Flown. This trick looks like REAL Magic in the right hands, in the demo...it looks it could be the teach in of the effect from the front, it is performed that bad. What I laugh at, is not only are they knocking off an effect...but they are knocking off the coins themselves...no I don't mean the gaffs (Though they ARE being knocked off too), but the fact they have silver dollars...which aren't real!!! Phoney silver dollars!!!
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jimbowmanjr Veteran user Inside the Bottle 320 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-09 16:07, Jeff Corn wrote: The problem with this argument is that it has to be proven that the statements are untrue. It isn't very hard to speak your mind on Magic Makers when they routinely (no pun intended) provided the ammunition to defame their character and slander them, which is actually neither defamation or slander. I would love to hear back from them and hear how they have justified selling duplicates of anything that has been a successful original creation. As for boycotting Magic Makers the only place I buy any of magic aside from the original creators is Elmwood Magic. I haven't been able to find any Magic Makers stuff on there yet but they do have a rather lengthy inventory and it would take me a long time to look through all of it. I do my best to avoid any place that stocks their crap on the shelves. --Jim |
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Marc DeSouza V.I.P. Wayne, PA 161 Posts |
Hi Jeff,
I haven't mentioned it before in my posts, but I am co-chair of the Ethics Committee for the SAM. A few years ago I received a number of complaints concerning Magic Makers. I expressed my concern to a friend, who will remain nameless, who had a "relationship" with Rob Stiff and was trying to defend him. I brought up several instances where he ripped off proprietary material. Stiff actually called me to discuss the issue and really felt justified in marketing the products I had mentioned to our mutual friend. He didn't do a very good job at defending himself. When I mentioned another product, he was totally taken off guard and claimed no knowledge of his infringement. He said he found the prop at another magic shop without instructions, so he thought it was ok to put it out. Where is the logic in that kind of thinking? I told him it was a item exclusively manufactured by Ton Onosaka. He said that he didn't have many left, so he would just stop marketing it...that hasn't happened yet. This guy just doesn't get it. He will take whatever he wants and he has deep pockets. He threatens anyone who tries to block or stop him with legal action. He cannot stop people expressing their opinions about his repehensible business activites and total lack of ethics. The only way to stop him is to not buy his products and do not support any magic shop or internet site that carries Magic Makers products. Marc DeSouza |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
I've had my issues with them in the past, but I'm not a big name just yet, so they tried to push me around. What they don't know is that I've studied law and crime since I was in middle school, when my mom started going to law school. I know what kind of argument they have. The thing is that they seem to have a PDA with a bunch of files detailing the history of every effect they've knocked off. I don't seem to recall George at CW having one, Louis from L&L needing to know where all these things come from, or any other creator having to know, because they don't need to defend themselves. They actually claim that a Flipbook style trick from the 40s or 50s is enough of a reason for them to rip CardToon and effectively kill the charm of the routine with the designs they put on the cards. Oh well.
As for the Illusion Coins, it looks horrible. The beauty of Three Fly is that they coins are generally kept apart other than the occasional tap of one hand against the other. The FP looks horrible, he jerks before producing each coin, the FP Replacement made me cringe, at one point he just decides to stop trying to hide the fact that he's having to move coins from one hand to the other and just takes it openly, then he decides to avoid giving the camera a good look and one coin and hides it behind his fingers so that you barely see a sliver of it. This is really bad. On the ShowOff with Coins video, they teach the original Three Fly badly enough, now they really want to show a lack of talent. Leave the coin work to the coin workers.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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magicmike30 Special user 744 Posts |
I thought it was a joke when I first watched the demo. Wow just bad and wrong a another rip off".
I would like to coin this as the ultimate "Stiff Off." magicmike30
Entertainer
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rowdymagi5 Inner circle Virginia 3616 Posts |
Chris is right, only way to make an impact is to deal with this problem with the dealers. Let them know how you feel. Hit them in the pocketbook.
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Steven Conner Inner circle 2720 Posts |
The dealers ought to help out as well and not carry such garbage. Even though the Pro's don't buy into this, the masses do. It is good to be able to save money, but when we help these kind of people with their marketing, you can almost understand why the Greats kept things to themselves.
Steve
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Who are the onloine shops that carry magic makers?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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MJ Marrs Inner circle Los Angeles 1124 Posts |
I remember folks screaming bloody murder when Kohler came out with the idea of trying to legally protect his holdout. However, it's obvious from the example provided by MM that the magic world needs to do something to stop such blatant unethical behavior.
I hope someday that MM is sued into bankruptcy by someone with deep enough pockets and time to spare in court--unfortunately, life is short enough as it is and who wants to take a chunk of their limited time with family to spend going after these guys? The world's always had these types, and always will... But the worst thing of all IMHO is that for each of us who sees the damage caused by the likes of MM, there's about thirty who couldn't care less. The noise to signal ratio isn't good, and MM is banking on that. Too bad. |
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
Christopher,your favourite online shop sell MM products.So do a few others but it
is a sensitive issue.Shops want to stay in business and a lot of consumers just want to consume and get the best deal they can.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
What has always struck me odd about the Magic Makers controversey is that there are well known Magicians that are VERY wealthy and they do nothing about it. They clearly could, but don't. So....if it means nothing to them, why should anyone else care?
There are even Attourney's that are Magcians and they do nothing. If they felt as passionate about it as they do Magic, they would address it in court. So..it's either not as big a deal as folks make out or...Magic Maker's does have the leagal right to do everything that they do. Maybe there is an Attourney in the Café that could tell us?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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shaunproof Loyal user Parts Unknown 228 Posts |
Will these be limited to 200?
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Doomo Inner circle 2365 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-10 19:57, shaunproof wrote: LMAO!!! But no one will get it...
If you ever get to a point where words have no meaning, you're probably talking to a dog.
Remember! More Bang For LESS Bucks! It is the right way! www.rfaproductions.com |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-10 19:57, shaunproof wrote: That was very funny!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Steven Conner Inner circle 2720 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-10 19:10, Christopher Kavanagh wrote: Without Patent or Copyright protection, there is very little to protect. There have been a few magicians to patent their secrets. Magic Makers is playing on the fact that they aren't breaking the Law only ethics and morals. If you want to stop them, don't buy their products. The golf industry has been fighting this same issue for years and we're talking about a billion dollar business. If you are a golfer, how many have bought a knock-off? Its not fair nor is it right.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
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tdowell Inner circle 1050 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-10 08:28, emanmagic5 wrote: The funny thing is you hear three "clink" sounds, but should only hear two because at the end of the routine the first coin that goes into his empty hand makes the same sound as the second and third coins hitting each other. If indeed these coins are plastic, they shouldn't sound like that at all. I'm suprised Mr. Kohler himself has not chimed in here because the routine looks a lot like U3F to me. Bob? |
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Donny Orbit Special user 944 Posts |
That's low!!! If these are made of plastic and they superimposed metal sounds over the demo vid, that's false advertising as well.
XX |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Quote:
How can you even use the phrase "no consideration for their reputation" when speaking of Magic Takers. Rob Stiff is the magical equivalent of Satan and apparently Ben Salinas has been drawn into the underworld by him. I used to have respect for Ben, but when you sleep with pigs you start to smell like one too. Stiff is a malignant tumor on the butt of magic. Next time I see you, I will be happy to tell you how I really feel about him, without pulling punches How about not buying products from magicians that are associated with them!? Obviously these magicians know the reputation that MM has and THEY don't seem to be bothered by it. It seems that people tend overlook this when complaining about MM's ethics. Maybe if enough pressure is put on these magicians then they will thing twice about being associated with MM. Thus there pool of known magicians will dry up.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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