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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3035 Posts 
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Christopher, if it is a Three Fly routine with a sliding shell, personally I think you'd be inviting a lot of heat you may not want. Just read the nine pages of this thread if you want reasons. You gotta ask yourself if it is worth the BS or not.
Click to visit:
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Christopher Williams Inner circle Portsmouth, UK 4520 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-10-17 13:10, Dan Watkins wrote: Good point Dan. I have held off for over a year now since it was first ready to release, then I put it on the back burner, now it seems I won't be releasing it at all. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27490 Posts
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Chris, IMHO there is no great shame in offering yet another version of my coins across to the market the way it stands today.
You may want to keep in mind that unless you are doing something significant or novel, the mark on our literature will stay with you for a long time. If you have good reason to believe you are doing something that has not been explored with billiards or thimbles or coins and your work will honor those who've come before and offer new resources to this community - let your good sense guide your actions.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Review King Eternal Order 14445 Posts
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If permision is gotten from all parties, then Christopher could release his ( and it's excellent-Christopher is a real worker!!! ).
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27490 Posts
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Still amazed that
someone is offering a product they have no right to make ANY claims upon using a gaff they have no rights to make any claims upon and a routine they have no right to copy or make any claims upon and advertising it openly to non-magicians via amazon.com and folks aren't absolutely bug eyed angry and willing to boycot the vendor entirely? I hope folks have decided to look for that MM/RobS label and seek their products elsewhere.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts
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If the original gaff is like the MM one (in working, nothing else) are you saying that someone is claiming to have invented it? I have a coin gaff where the side broke out and became this gaff. This happened back in the 80's and I'm sure other have had the same thing happen to them before me, so how is this an invention someone can claim?
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2305 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-10-17 21:27, Kent Messmer wrote: <Sniff Sniff> Something smells like yesterday's diaper here.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27490 Posts
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Kent, Steve Dusheck invented (really) the basic gaff in question.
When putting together his product, BobK asked Steve's permission to offer something evolved from Steve's gaff. To even consider offering such a gaff to be used in a routine that is for all (lay audience perspective) intents and purposes identical to the Kohler/Lassen/Wayne/Dusheck gaff is IMHO disrespectful to all four of those guys. Let's not condone this sort of insulting and disrespectful behavior. We are and deserve better than that in our market and in our literature.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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enginemagic Special user Bluffton Indiana 597 Posts
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So I hear that magic makers isn't a good company? I know theres some really cheap junky items many companys sell,and I guess magic is no exception to the trully poor quality of products that should be banned from sale,or they should be sold for next to nothing. I work in the outdoor power equipment field and several companys have their share of JUNK!!! LOL. I look at some of these machines & wonder how they get away with selling such low quality.
I felt that I purchaed good product from magic makers the DVD set named "Modern coin magic"for $60(some of that markup was from the magic store owner).Very pleased with it the way it was produced I learned a great deal from this set.Videos are easier to learn from than books as I see it.most of the things I learned was fron visual like tinkering with the items weather it be magic or machines,or helping someone experienced with that subject.
theres a lot to learn out there,many interesting subjects,and hobbies to enjoy
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ASW Inner circle 1882 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-10-17 21:27, Kent Messmer wrote: What a joke.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Y2John Inner circle 1498 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-10-17 21:27, Kent Messmer wrote: Erm, are you serious... do you actually know anything about ethics and respect? Do you actually believe what your saying, what a joke. You even should't be in the magic business if this is how you think. |
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liljay510 Regular user Dallas, TX 101 Posts
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Kent, Magic Makers has duped a lot of effects and marketed them as their own, most of the magic secrets are not copyrighted giving them the advantage. IF a product is copyrighted it will become a public...and no longer a secret. Magic makers is using this ruse to exlpoit magicians and their hard work. It would not be ethical for me or you to market the Floating Rose effect for half the price of Kevin James DVD, (which is a great buy for the bonus items), only because you are using a different type of thread.
If nothing, then at least take the time to practice and make an effort to have a decent performance of the effect. It looks like magic makers is doing what every beginner magician is told not to do but does anyway, they learn the methods behind the effect and then go out and perform it horrendously and not to mention reveal the secret at the same time.
No matter How much you know you can never stop learning.
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kihei kid Inner circle Dog House 1040 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-10-09 10:26, Dan Watkins wrote: I beg to differ. Their reputation precedes them! What gar-bage. I don’t know what is worse, the coins or the routine. I’ll stick with classics such as coin though trousers before I lower myself to do a VCA with this refuse.
In loving memory of Hughie Thomasson 1952-2007.
You brought something beautiful to this world, you touched my heart, my soul and my life. You will be greatly missed. Until we meet again “my old friend”. |
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3632 Posts
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As to a follow up to the post that said : " magic makers is makign the effect affordable to all"
if your a perfomer on a budget, its it not simple enough to do a gaffless version. you could get the coins for about 20-25 dollars, cheaper then being robbed and stiffed. |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts
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I thought the point of pricing something high, other than the obvious manufacturing cost, was to keep it out of the hands of people that weren't dedicated to the effect. There's plenty of inexpensive magic out there. The MM and Exposure people don't seem to understand that the people concerned with the price to that extreme don't want magic, they want that specific trick. If you really want the routine and not just the secret, you'd pay the extra money.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27490 Posts
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A high price just makes an item attractive to dilletants and rich kids.
A low price makes the item cheap enough to be treated as trash. Selling what is not yours to sell taints any who touch or sell the item.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Y2John Inner circle 1498 Posts
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I don't know how someone could bring themselves to blatantly sell someone elses hardwork, time and effort.
Even the thought of ripping off someone elses idea and then selling it as yor own makes me feel queezy. |
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Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts
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O.K. here’s the skinny. I really do understand what it is like to have something stolen. My father developed and used for many years something that a LARGE, world wide tractor manufacturing company liked. They flew him out, wined and dined him as he laid out his program to them. This was a multi million dollar deal. When it was all said and done, after he had worked with them for a while they took all his hard work and did it on their own. He contacted his attorney and found out that he should have filed his trade secret and had them sign an agreement to follow it. There was nothing that could be done. My father learned an expensive lesson. It made me quite angry for what they had done to him. He told me that life is too short to waste time on something when nothing can be done about it.
So don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about! My posts are only to let any would be inventor PROTECT YOUR STUFF! Or companies like MM will be able to take it from you and all you will be able to do is kick and scream. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27490 Posts
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Kent, one of the tacts here is that no matter how clever a butcher is, unless it's their cow to sell, it's bad when they go selling beef of questionable provenance.
What can we do when our market tolerates companies that fly a jolly roger flag with motto "if it's not illegal it's on sale here"? How do you suggest folks "protect their stuff" short of using violence to remove offending parties and instilling a sense of fear into the rest who might be tempted to offer "similar" works?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts
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Quote:
What can we do when our market tolerates companies that fly a jolly roger flag with motto "if it's not illegal it's on sale here"? I thought that's what I've been telling people how to do? I'm sorry no one wants to convert the knowledge posted by others and myself into wisdom but that seems to be where we are. Quote:
This is what many here are "almost" advocating. Where's the ethics in that? |
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Posted: Oct 17, 2007 05:10 pm 
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