Some of you know that for the past few years I've worked with L&L Publishing. About a month ago I signed on with Ellusionist and am working with them in several capacities including online marketing. I'm fortunate to be able to work with both of these top magic DVD producers. I just wanted to clarify that before I posted so there wasn't any confusion for those of you who associate me with L&L.(I wear a lot of hats these days!)

Several months ago a thread was created about Ellusionist's Loops DVDs and some issues with one routine. That thread is here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=177

It was locked months ago, but we feel it's important that we add this statement to the record so everyone knows where Ellusionist stands:

********

Earlier this year, Ellusionist.com released "The Guerilla Guide to using Loops", a 3 volume set. Volume 2 featured Daniel Garcia performing a routine entitled "Life". This routine featured Robert Neale's "Fluttering Butterfly" from his book "Folding Money Fooling".

Ellusionist regrets that a credit for Mr. Neale was left out of the DVD. During the production of the DVD, Daniel Garcia did credit Robert Neale, however in post-production, this segment was unintentionally edited out and a proper credit was never added. This was not the fault of Mr. Garcia, but was an unfortunate oversight on the part of Ellusionist. We apologize to both Mr. Neale and Mr. Garcia for this.

At the beginning of the year, before the next duplication run of these DVDs, we will re-edit Volume 2 and include a proper, on screen credit to Mr. Neale.

With our future projects it's important to know that Ellusionist is committed to Best Practices by obtaining permission and proper crediting.

********

This statement was also be posted on The Magic Woods forum, where the thread has taken many directions.

Everything has been sorted out with Mr. Neale and he is fine with the effect, the DVD, Daniel Garcia, Ellusionist, and the whole situation.

I personally spoke with Daniel Garcia last night and he assured me that everything is fine between he and Andrew Goldenhersh.

We appreciate your feedback and comments regarding this.

Thank you!

Steve,

This is copied and pasted from what I wrote over at the Magic Woods.

----------------

"I personally spoke with Daniel Garcia last night and he assured me that everything is fine between he and Andrew Goldenhersh."

Steve,

Thanks for the statement.

Pardon my skepticism on this particular quote. Daniel Garcia has also repeatedly said that things were fine between him and Yves Doumergue regarding adopting his technique in the Torn DVD. However, I have personally contacted Yves and know for certain that things are NOT fine as far as he is concerned.

If this was the first time Garcia had been involved in such a controversy, I might be inclined to assume this is a he-said, she-said situation. It isn't, and since we're in a position where we have to weigh the integrity of people on both sides of this claim, I'm sorry to say that I don't believe Garcia.

I would very much like to be proven wrong. I had a high opinion of Garcia's contributions to magic in the past.

Steve,

Will this Formal Statement actually end up on the Loops DVD product web page and/or the Ellusionist Forum?

Seems like that would be the right thing to do.

As of October 18, 2007 I can find no mention of it.

Thanks,

Mantel

This seems like an odd topic for your very first post. hmmmm

Anyway - more than likely not on the product page because Robert Neale is already credited on the product page. Regarding E's forum, I haven't been in there yet to see if someone else from the team has posted it or not. It's not purposely been omitted from the forum, we just haven't been in there to do it yet.

Everyone has to start somewhere, Steve.

Thanks for the update.

I went ahead and found what is probably the most relevant thread for you. When you & e have the time the thread where it is discussed is:

http://www.elusionist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70998

Regards,

Mantel

Steve,

As a matter of fact I do confirm that nothing is fine between Daniel and me.
He is still selling his program wih using some of my mooves without any permission.

Yves Doumergue

Yves,

I appreciate you speaking up here and letting me know your side of the situation with Daniel Garcia. Since Torn is not an Ellusionist product, there's nothing I can comment on regarding this except to say you should contact Paul Harris as it's a Paul Harris Presents DVD.

My personal feeling is that if people are upset with the Daniel Garcia/Andrew Goldenhersh situation and you're coming after Ellusionist, then you should also be going after Paul Harris with the same verbal abuse that's been thrown at E. There shouldn't be two separate standards.

To update - I've had two conversations with Andrew Goldenhersh and am waiting for his direct response back to me. I want to make sure Andrew is being quoted properly and not just my interpretation of our conversation.

I can't speak for Yves, but to be clear, my own reason for bringing up the Torn/R&R controversy is that Daniel Garcia appears to be saying the exact same thing to diffuse the Goldenhersh issue as he used to try to diffuse the Torn/R&R issue. Since we know that Yves is unhappy with Garcia, despite what Garcia has previously said about everything being fine, it makes sense that we'd be skeptical about Garcia's statement that everything is fine between him and Goldenhersh.

Eriandish,

Thanks for bringing this to the forum. As we talked toguether via PM, I explained you my point of view on the situation with Mr Garcia.
To make things things clear for everybody, I gave you full right during this conversation to talked on my behalf on forum about this problem.

I'm very respectfull for people like you that try to expose things the right way and try to inject a breath of honesty and respect in this word.

I'm sure that Daniel have tons of self justification about this. That's his choice to live this life.

But I'm also very ashamed and disarmed that a respected magician, a respected fellow CREATOR (one of my personal Magic idol) with such a knowledge of magic,like Paul Harris accredit this with his name.

Anyway, for you and for all the email I received, thanks for your support.

Yves

Just a follow up regarding Andrew Goldenhersh. We've had several conversations regarding this. We've resolved a few issues and he still wants to get his side of the story out. However when I first contacted Andrew, he was under the weather. I spoke to him on Monday and he still wasn't feeling too good. On top of that, he is appearing at The Magic Castle this week. My best guess is we will not be hearing from him this week.

Steve,

Nice to see you on board taking the reigns with these issues. Hopefully we can stay on the topic that you originally intended this to be about.

Yves,

I mean no disrespect but if you want to discuss Torn perhaps you should start a separate thread in this forum.

Cheers,
Jim

Jim,

No offence.

But now, that money and fame are away, this forum seems more tolerant for creator's point of view...I'll think of it

And I count on your support !


Yves

Yves, while I have no personal knowledge of the history of your posting here, you do say something interesting in an above post. You say: "Note that this section ofthe forum is not so looked at, maybe this is why... " Indeed. Perhaps you have been complaining in other forums, whereas this forum is indeed the one you should post in regarding ethical issues.

I would suggest that if you were to start a thread regarding ethical issues about "Torn" in this forum, it would not be deleted. I cannot guarantee this, but I think it likely.

Jeff

Yves, what do you think about Bruno Copin's tricks?

-J

Funny thing about taking tricks using IT... there's always strings attached.

Jonathan, what are you hinting at?

Asking for an opinion. Was delighted by some b/w clips and wanted an opinion from a local expert on the material.

Was also hoping that COPIN could be used as example of good behavior.

So... any development here?

While I am still working with Andrew Goldenhersh to get a public statement for his side of this, I wanted to update you on crediting that has been added to the sales page for the Loops DVD at Ellusionist's site:

http://www.ellusionist.com/product/dvd+t......loops.do

Quoted from the page:

Daniel Garcia's LIFE trick was inspired by Andrew Goldenhersh's signature presentation of Robert Neale's Butterfly fold.

Robert Neale's Buttlerfly fold can be found in his book Folding Money Fooling.

I hope that helps to clear things up a bit until Andrew can present his side of this.

Just wanted to take a moment to hopefully keep things from spiraling out of control.

Steve is actively trying to resolve this issue and I applaud him for it. I will confirm that he is awaiting a statement from Andrew. Andrew is a wonderful magician and good friend - but he moves at his own pace. (Ask me about dinner at Disneyland sometime for a perfect example!)

Andrew is working on a statement and Steve is in the unenviable position of having to wait in order to resolve the thread which he opened. It is not his fault and I encourage all of us to remain open minded as we await Andrew's statement.

I for one am grateful Steve has tackled this issue head on - warts and all - and is trying to resolve it as best as possible.

Brad

Since this hasn't been replied to in about a month I thought I should follow up to let you know that nothing has changed. I am still waiting for Andrew's reply. We haven't forgotten about this and the ball is still in Andrew's court.