From my experience, Ellusionist doesn't care if they credit creators. Grumble.

You're not correct in your statement. There is a lot of misconceptions about Ellusionist. They made mistakes when they first started releasing products, such as Street Magic, but Brad went back and corrected the crediting errors. The mistakes they made were corrected several years ago, not just recently.

Magicians, such as yourself, like to come into these threads and make generalized statements without any real knowledge of what is really going on. If you don't like Ellusionist, then don't shop there. However to make a statement like you did, adds nothing to what has been a productive conversation.

So you made a very broad statement - can you give an example?

Domino,

Give this account a read if you want to understand why people make statements like Thommy Razor just made.

Domino,

Talk to people who have dealt with this first hand. Look at their track record. Then decide.

p.s. talked to Andrew the other day. I had hoped his statement would have been made by now. Any word on your end, Steve?

I am looking at a long list of Ellusionist products and at this point in time only see one routine on one DVD that is at question and based on what I read here and on The Magic Woods (Erlandish, I've followed this for a couple of months), this is being taken care of.

A very broad statement was made that Ellusionist doesn't credit creators. Street Magic was taken care of and it looks like they are taking care of this as well - so out of all of E's products, where else is there an issue where they don't credit the creators?

What I'm understanding about this Loops thing is that there was a mistake made while editing where they took out Garcia holding up the book (E's mistake), but the second issue is Garcia taking Goldenhersh's routine - that seems to be Garcia's mistake. E's taking care of that as well and everyone is just waiting to hear Goldenhersh's side of it.

It's not possible for every magic producer to know every routine every performer does. If no one from E's team had ever seem Goldenhersh perform, how would they know it was his routine? I'm assuming they took Garcia at face value, that the material he was bringing to Loops was his own.

Truthteller, if you're referring to Steve Pelegrino I don't think he's around anymore.

It is an editor's responsibility to ensure that the product they are releasing is ethically acceptable. Had someone committed an act of libel on one of their releases, they would but just as responsible. It is their job to take the steps needed to ensure their products.

Ignorance is never an excuse - which is what you are hoping to make it. I assure you, had they asked any single remotely knowledgeable magician, they could have easily found this out. (Or maybe, they had a very knowledgeable magician warn them, and they decided to go ahead with it anyway!)

Domino:
They sell one of my tricks, with no mention of me as the creator. We had a very simple deal, they've chosen not to honor it. They screwed me, simple as can be. I am not some snot nosed little punk who gets on these boards to throw out meaningless rhetoric about people I have no right to talk about, Ellusionist has not held up their end of the bargain. It's not them being ignorant, it's them not caring.
I keep my nose wiped.
There is my specific example.
Cheers.

What trick did you invent?

The zippercard gaffs sold in the red and blue gaff decks. I know it's nothing phenomenal, but we did have a deal and they haven't kept up with it.

Did they ever honor the agreement?

I don't think Mr. Razor is around the Café anymore either! But his myspace is touting the ellusionist gaff, so...

I remembered reading this. So I went ahead and found it. Here you go Christopher



Regards,

Mantel