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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Serious Challenge to Mr. Gore (Science not Politics) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Doug Higley
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Junk Science: Hey, Al Gore, We Want a Refund!

The article raises some interesting points by disecting the film and injecting Judicial findings. Read the whole piece please what ever your stripe. Please keep this regarding the FILM vs. Science and not Political.

Remember this bogus film is being shown in schools of all levels and even in Museums. What are people learning? Why perpetuate and reward ignorance? Is this doom and gloom presentation diabolical or just stupid?

Sure it's been talked here before but this article allows for a different peek into the film's BS approach and reliance on 'whole' rather than a dissection.

Yes I'm coming from a 'point of view'...as should you.
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rossmacrae
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I never saw the film (I already know what point it makes, so ... why?)

However ... science ... my son and I were talking yesterday and this came to mind:

We're all urged to be so freakin' 'green', switch to compact fluoro bulbs and such. What we need is a good heat-to-energy system that can be installed anywhere, and require that big-time heat producers catch some of that heat they emit and turn it to energy to put back on the grid. Whatever little trickle I save in my house, I could do it for 100 years and not equal the heat energy released in one day by any of the hundreds of pizza shops nearby.

It could be done. I remember a THIS OLD HOUSE years ago where the owners of an old building, a former mill with a stream underneath, had installed a generator to capture the water energy (what they call "low-head hydro") and were putting more electricity into the grid than they used, even getting a regular payment from the local power company.

The Earth is a huge system, and it may well be that about the time we quit worrying about what may possibly be a natural warming cycle, we'll start worrying about the next ice age (and, guaranteed, there WILL be one)
DStachowiak
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Isn't this horse dead yet?
Woke up.
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kregg
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The Nobel Laureate also supported the notion that "In fact, you can even reduce your carbon emissions to zero."(works for dead people). Another time he said, "Balance is bias" when referring to how the press should not cover both sides of the scientific debate on anthropogenic global warming.

John Stossel of ABC's 20/20 wrote, "With all this news coverage, it's no surprise that 86 percent of Americans think global warming is a serious problem and 70 percent want the government to do something now." http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/s......9&page=1

Then there's this lengthy analysis of the IPCC's peer review found here: http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/sppi_o......iew.html

With that, the debate on Global Warming is not over.
POOF!
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-10-20 04:19, Doug Higley wrote:

Yes I'm coming from a 'point of view'...as should you.

Fair enough, but let's keep in mind what you posted is an "opinion" piece (it is clearly labeled as such at the top of the column) and not a completely factual reporting article. In terms of raw facts, that opinion piece is as guilty of exaggeration as is Gore's movie.

Let's keep in mind that the judge did not dismiss Gore's main message ... just that Gore was guilty of possibly exaggeration / overstating the case in some instances. So it is not really a serious challenge to Mr. Gore at all.

A better factual reporting of the judge's decision is given here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7037671.stm

[And, no, I have not seen Gore's movie.]

Incidentally, I don't think a judge should be weighing in on matters of science in the first place. Whether this is in regards to global warming, creation vs evolution, or stem cell research. I don't believe a judge selected at random necessarily has the training / knowledge to understand these issues.
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RicHeka
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Back to Gore's Man-made Climate Change Theory:

http://tinyurl.com/354c4l
Doug Higley
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Thus spake Zarothustra the bottom line...(uh Gray..)

"It bothers me that my fellow scientists are not speaking out against something they know is wrong," he said. "But they also know that they'd never get any grants if they spoke out. I don't care about grants."

Go get 'em Doc.
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balducci
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On 2007-10-20 11:44, Doug Higley wrote:
Thus spake Zarothustra the bottom line...(uh Gray..)

"It bothers me that my fellow scientists are not speaking out against something they know is wrong," he said. "But they also know that they'd never get any grants if they spoke out. I don't care about grants."

Go get 'em Doc.

Andrew Dessler wrote about Gray:

"Bill Gray is [often] excoriated in public, rightfully in my opinion, because he's essentially accused the entire scientific community of fraud ... and for no other reason that I can figure out other than he didn't get the funding he feels he deserves. As a scientist, he knows that the type of conspiracy theories he's suggesting simply cannot actually occur. This has led to a real loss of respect within the community for him."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Bill Nuvo
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Can't we find some middle ground? It's absurd to think we have no effect on our environment. What's in question is the extent to which we do. Isn't it a good idea to take certain steps (which in turn save us money and resources) in preventative measures. I'm not talking all out alarmist measures but reasonable ones.
Doug Higley
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Reasonable is what we are after. As to middle ground...I'll wire Rodney King...but when Alarmism is the Game there is no relaxing of the Alarms or the alarmist would poof and there lies the crux. Doomsayers in a power grab.

Andrew Dessler: "Dr. Dessler also has a strong interest in the policy side of the climate change debate. He spent 2000 as a senior policy analyst in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. While there, he became aware of that policymakers and the general public often lack an understanding of how science works..."

He certainly was effective...hmmm...did he teach Gore? If we should follow the money with anybody, it's this guy!
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-10-20 13:54, Doug Higley wrote:
but when Alarmism is the Game there is no relaxing of the Alarms or the alarmist would poof and there lies the crux.

Indeed. As I recall, this thesis (i.e., how certain powers that be keep the American public in a state of fear) was explored in a movie. Fahrenheit 9/11.

So far as the global warming debate goes, both sides are good at exciting the masses.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Josh the Superfluous
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When will those tree huggers learn that pollution is good?
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ralphdean
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If Mr Gore walked the walk instead of just talking the right would have a much smaller target to shoot at.

I really hate the left wing Hollywood types tell everyone else how to live when they can not get it right themselves but, on the other hand, those who live how they preach, even if I do not like what they are saying I respect. I would probably hate the right wing Hollywood types preaching too but they seem to stay in the closet.

No matter if Gore is right or not, doing small things locally to cut any harm we may be doing is not a bad thing. What about it Mr Gore?
Josh Riel
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Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
kregg
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Josh, though a funny line, pollution isn't the issue (it should be I'm for clean). But, were not talking about carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide isn't poisonous until it reaches 3,300 ppm; the world needs to be ablaze for that to happen. Remember, the IPCC and The Nobel Laureate are claiming that Carbon Dioxide is the cause of warming.
I read an article about how scientist theorized that they could reverse our current warming trend by dumping iron oxide into the ocean to kill algae. Huh ... have they seen the size of the ocean? Not to mention the fact that it would actually increase the levels of CO2.
POOF!
Doug Higley
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And severely alter the Food Chain.
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RicHeka
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Mother Nature has been efficiently taking care of things 'Naturally' for only about..4.6 billion years.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-10-20 15:57, ralphdean wrote:
If Mr Gore walked the walk instead of just talking the right would have a much smaller target to shoot at.

No matter if Gore is right or not, doing small things locally to cut any harm we may be doing is not a bad thing. What about it Mr Gore?

Not that I particularly want to get involved in defending Gore, but he does do more than "just talk". He does "walk the walk". He's been walking the walk on environmental issues for more than 30 years, since the 1970s.

On another note, I think the group that thinks global warming is hype do themselves more harm than good by attacking Gore personally. Like when they repeat the urban legend about him taking credit for "inventing the internet" ( nice analysis of that smear job against Gore here http://sethf.com/gore/ ). Or when they say that because he uses jet planes to fly from lecture to lecture, that he is a hypocrite. Sorry, but it's a little more complicated than that.

I mean, some of the attacks on Gore are more outrageous and sillier than any of the exaggerations in Gore's movie. Consequently, the attackers come off looking looney, and Gore comes up smelling like roses.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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On 2007-10-21 22:36, PaleoMagi wrote:
Mother Nature has been efficiently taking care of things 'Naturally' for only about..4.6 billion years.

You mean 6,000. Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
RicHeka
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Quote:
On 2007-10-21 23:09, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-10-21 22:36, PaleoMagi wrote:
Mother Nature has been efficiently taking care of things 'Naturally' for only about..4.6 billion years.

You mean 6,000. Smile


No I mean 4.6 Billion years.

6000 years only takes things back to the Neolithic Age.Care to debate?
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