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Ron Conley
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silverking
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And they said it couldn't be done!

What's interesting is the initial response of AbsolutePoker telling the other users that nothing had gone wrong, trying to get them all to go away and quit pressing the issue.

The false sense of security that millions of online poker players have demonstrated over the last five to six years has always had me wondering why on earth folks would trust their money (say upwards of a few hundred bucks) to a bunch of unregulated companies running software that is proprietary and therefore completely secretive in it's deployment and use.

Perhaps folks will think twice before getting into games over $1-$2 online...........but probably not.

Yeah the guy was an employee and apparently had administrator privileges or had created himself some sort of superuser account.........but the important thing to note is that reading the entire tables hole cards CAN, and IS being done.
h2o
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Once again Absolute Poker... There was already a big buzz about some kind of "Super Account" privileges on this room in different poker forums a couple of weeks ago.
After the WCCOP cheating-multi accounts story on PokerStars, I guess this is just the beginning of new disclosures....
Poker is sometimes referred as "the cheating game". Online seems no exception...
h2o
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By the way, Richard Marcus has some interesting comments on his blog about this scam:

http://www.richardmarcusbooks.com/blog.htm
DStachowiak
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Even without hacking the system, online poker has always been vulnerable to cheating. How hard is it for a mob of cheats to get two or three players into the same game and collude on the phone?
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
tommy
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You can start your own online casino - Starting from about 10 grand. Personally I have never played on line. A few yew years back however I knew a crew who were scamming on line poker. They were looking for guys with accounts and the deal was they would deliberately lose to them and then after split the winnings. Obviously it was not their money they were losing but lets say that’s all I know.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
iamslow
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Ive heard of mega teams taking over whole groups of tables... just gotta form a big enough team, have a good rotation and rape the $(-)IT out of the tables... I stopped playing online poker 5 about years ago... All sites can be compromised one way or another much easier than in live games...


j
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Expertmagician
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There are also Poker Bots out there which allow for collusion as well as advise on perfect poker strategy.

The problem is controlling enough poker bots to hit the same table.

Guess it's like playing partners...but, people can't see the signaling because you are using software.

That is one reason I always prefer playing against real people vs. using the Internet....and if you think I trust those off shore online poker sites run from the middle east, etc....you must be crazy Smile
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2007-10-22 15:30, DStachowiak wrote:
Even without hacking the system, online poker has always been vulnerable to cheating. How hard is it for a mob of cheats to get two or three players into the same game and collude on the phone?


They can't stop it in the casino! How can they hope to stop it online?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
silverking
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The online sites now seem to be able to detect most of the popular poker bots running at the same time, or interacting with their own software.

I tried one out ONCE and promptly got banned from Pokerstars!

Funny thing was the "best strategy" software was SO LAME I threw it away before I actually got the email giving me the boot from Pokerstars.
I'll not hesitate to say that if you depend on this kind of software to play your game, you'll finish much closer to the bottom of the pile than you will the top.

The "best strategy" software seems to play at about the level of rank beginner, or at least that's what folks will presume you are if you make even 75% of the moves the software suggests.
Dannydoyle
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I was speaking of collusion.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Expertmagician
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I suspect that you were probably caught because you may have let the Poker Bots interact on their own....

The online casinos try to stop poker bots by checking periodically that a person is watching or interacting with the screen/keyboard.

So, to beat this protection mechanism.....make sure that you respond to the casinos inquiries so they know/think a human is there Smile

Also bear in mind, collusion can also be performed by using chat rooms, instant messanging, etc. and no one can see the bits fly .... especially if you use a different computer Smile

Just be creative !
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Dannydoyle
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Isn't that the best way? Heck you can be on 10 sites at the same time! watch every screen and interact.

Really it is cheaper than any bot, and far more effective.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
silverking
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I didn't let the software run unattended.
Pokerstars informed me that their own software polled my computer to see what else was running at the same time their software was running.

You apparently OK Pokerstars to poll your active applications when you click the "OK" button during initial installation of their software.

You are forbidden by the user agreement from even having a pokerbot or "best hand' application running on the same computer at the same time as the PokerStars software whether it interacts directly with the PokerStars software or not.

More to the point though, the software sucks and won't help you win......so is ultimately a waste of time.
tommy
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There is a private poker club in London where they play live poker but also in the same place is a string of computers where one can play in an on line casino. The on line players sit at the computers and collude. It is simply common practice there.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
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Quote:
On 2007-10-23 00:33, silverking wrote:
I didn't let the software run unattended.
Pokerstars informed me that their own software polled my computer to see what else was running at the same time their software was running.

You apparently OK Pokerstars to poll your active applications when you click the "OK" button during initial installation of their software.

You are forbidden by the user agreement from even having a pokerbot or "best hand' application running on the same computer at the same time as the PokerStars software whether it interacts directly with the PokerStars software or not.

More to the point though, the software sucks and won't help you win......so is ultimately a waste of time.


I suspect that they scan your computer for execution of processes with certain names. If you are clever you can rename these processes to something else or if you have an old machine, change the name of the programs so they think you are running Microsoft Word or Excel Smile

If your pokerbot software calls other processes by using "hard coded names" then you may have to contact your poker bot company and ask for their advice.
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Expertmagician
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Funny how the offshore online casinos/poker rooms try to instill confidence that their games are legit.

I know that I can't see bits with my own eyes...so lord knows what is really happening in their software. Of course, they would never have shill players in a game to improve their percentage take or use some other strategy to have a larger vig.

To each their own, but, I like to be able to see my competition at a game and judge for myself if they are using "advantage play" or to see if the casino is legit Smile

Being magicians we should all know what can be done even if people watch. So, you obviously stand no chance of detecting cheating if you are looking at electrons.

Good luck to all online players...I guess ignorance, truely is bliss.

....and to each his own... Smile

Signed PT Barnum Smile
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Expertmagician
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I was just eMailed this by a friend.....

Absolute Poker responds to charges of insider cheating
22 October 2007


With charges of insider cheating and security breaches still swirling around Absolute Poker, Absolute's owner attempted to set the record straight Sunday by releasing a statement addressed to its players.

"The integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by AP whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems," said Joe Norton, the former Grand Chief of the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake and the owner of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, which holds a 100% interest in Absolute Poker.

"Like you, I have not been happy that during the initial stage of our investigation, AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation on this matter, giving rise to anger, suspicion, and concern on the part of our valued customers," the statement read. "I hope that our customers can appreciate that this remains an incredibly complex and sensitive issue, and I want to give you my strongest possible assurance that we will be as forthcoming as possible on how this breach occurred and what we are doing to remedy the situation."

The situation that Norton speaks of began about a month ago, when complaints began to surface that there were "superuser" accounts that could see the hole cards of all the players at a table during a high stakes poker tournament at Absolute Poker.

According to forums on TwoPlusTwo.com, the complaints started when "Potripper" enjoyed a prosperous, yet unlikely, string of fortune during a poker tournament, at one point going 20 minutes without folding pre-flop. A player by the name of "crazymarco" got suspicious and e-mailed Absolute Poker to request an XLS file of the hand history. As is the standard, Absolute Poker complied.

But what crazymarco received was far from the standard hand-history file. In addition to hand histories, it revealed the hole cards of each player and IP addresses and user details of both people at the table and those observing.

Further investigation revealed that "Potripper" folded his first two hands at the table in question, but once observer No. 363 arrived at the table, "Potripper" didn't fold another hand before the flop for 20 minutes with the implication being that somehow No. 363 was using a super user account and relaying all of the hole cards to "Potripper." Making matters worse, the IP of No. 363 was tracked back to a person by the name of Scott Tom, who Absolute Poker has confirmed is a "former member of Team Absolute Poker."

Norton's admission on Sunday that the security breach at the company was a "horrendous and inexcusable offense" came eight days after Absolute Poker announced that it had conducted an "extensive investigation" and "to the best of Absolute Poker's knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach." In that same statement, dated Oct. 12, Absolute Poker said that an "internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards."

Currently, both the Kahnawake Gaming Commission and a third-party auditor, Gaming Associates, are conducting investigations. AP announced that it would make the results of these audits public upon completion.


I believe this proves my suspecions Smile
CASE CLOSED !
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fmpilot
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A very informative essay on this very thing can be found here:

http://cardshark.us/online_gambling_frs.shtml

Lots of detail and information regarding collusion, bots, and inside jobs.
"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
sodman12
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First of all when I hear that something on a computer is deemed impossible I know there bull ****ting. You can say that all you want but, and this is especially true with a computer, nothing is impossible.


So let me get this straight. This was an inside job? not some random hacker that did it all from his house?
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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