The early writers of magic don't agree with you about sleeving. Houdin says, in his The Secret of Conjuring and Magic, that it is a practice that is frowned upon and only a few resort to it.

Edward Sachs, in his Sleigh of Hand, said, "No one but a bungler would use the sleeve in his regular performances, except when driven by necessity...". He then goes on say that the conjuror should be proficient at it in times of emergency.

Professor Hoffman didn't even think enough of it to mention it in his two classic works on magic, [[Modern Magic]] and [[More Magic]].

Downs always preferred to work with sleeves up and didn't care for it.

I'm not saying it's bad to do it, as some of the above have stated, I was just letting you know that a lot of the greats in magic didn't see point of sleeving.

WOW,

I'm really flattered that you like my Houdini routine. It's been such a long time since I've performed it, maybe I should do it again . . . it's a fun routine.

thank you,
Greg Rostami

It's a very nice routine Greg. Thanks for offering it to us at the Café.

Aristocrat,
Have you seen the Roth box set? The one gimmick box is practically undetectable even under better than casual inspection! Give em a look!

Greg,
I love that routine but had forgot about it until the other day. Gave me good reason to dig out my ummmm "Houdini" set of coins and while playing with it my kid crept up on me but only caught the result so he was baffled! LOL
Mick

Podcastrant - if you are trying to say sleeving isn't worth practising/using, I'd disagree entirely! If you have any doubt as to its effectiveness, watch David Berglas and Bobby Bernard.

Moreover, the aforementioned names in your post were stage/parlour acts; maybe that's why they had a different perspective? In the case of Downs, I don't believe in using a hollowed out dollar filled with wax for the thumb when making the coin star; but he did!

On a positive note, fair play to you for reading the classics; so many people now depend upon 'names' and their latest DVD.

From my experience of magic, the people that I find are not enamoured by sleeving are those that cannot do it effectively enough to fool people. They sometimes resort to using godforesaken gimmicks like Ravens; and then sell these for peanuts on ebaY when they can't even be bothered to practice with these either.

Mickey - never seen the Roth set of boxes; I've used many types over the years but despite using A Bobby Bernard coin box, various other gimmicked boxes, etc. I inevitably end up reverting to the Ken Brooke set of boxes I have from the late 1960's. The counter balance is expceptional (certainly the best I've ever used) and they still look like new after 40 years.

I like sleeving fine.

Re: Sleeving like use of a T_ _ _ _ _ less is more....

Yes I use both.

I started with a deep stamped out copper okito box (still have it) and the Mohammed Bey book. My favorite routine then was coins through the card case using the okito box.

Fast forward 30 years

Some of the things I am playing with now are from David Roth and Joe Rindfleisch. Using the box and a shell, stealing coins from the stack before they go in the box, using the slot box, etc. It's a great prop for adding interest to coin magic. It seems to take away one of the typical responses people have which is "you hid it in the other hand". It is harder for them to imagine that you got it in or out of the box.

Anyone remember the "Lippinkito" box by Douglas-Wayne Engineering?

With this specially made Okito Box, the coin doesn't vanish until AFTER the Okito Box is secured inside an attractive wooden box. The neat feature is the Lippincott-box-like gimmick is on the bottom of the box.

I seem to remember John Mendoza demonstrating the routine on an accompanying VHS tape. I do know the original routine was developed by Larry White.

Julie

I really enjoyed the Houdini Routine. Fun stuff.

I am still a fan of Chad Long's Boston Box routine, just to bring it up!

RevJohn

I use both the Boston and Okito boxes plus I have the O-Korto box set by Milt Kort.

I used to struggle with the straight Okito until I read David Roth's work in Expert Coin Magic. I always hated the turnover but Mr. Roth blazed new trails with this underrated and almost never seen prop.

Daryl has a really cool Copper/Silver routine in his Secrets of a Puerto Rican Gambler that I perform fairly regularly.

Best,
Vlad

Got a slot box but never played around with it properly; thanks for the posts some of these Okito box tricks look very interesting. I am sure I will pick up the slot box in the near future.

I've played with most every variety of these but prefer a Standard okito. Most common routine I perform is Roths Out with 4. I still need to try a slot box.

What's the most offbeat okito box effect you've seen.

There are a lot of "extract the coin" or "put the coin in" routines, but what are the other interesting plots?

For instance Shoot Ogawa had a final load of a live goldfish once. That was certainly offbeat.

5 spring to mind:

1. Changing a coin whilst in the spectator's possession (easily achieved with the Bobby Bernard Box)

2. A different method of performing Chink A Chink (Matrix) - the Aldo Colombini routine as outlined in the Ganson teach in series (1978)

3. Glittering finale - from BOBO where the coin fragments into glitter dust (1978 printing - page 504)

4. The other finale whereby after the coins pentrating through the hand, the box then penetrates leaving the coins stacked on the back of the hand (read first as part of the Ken Brooke routine but don't know if it's Ken's) (May 1967)

5. Mark Leveridge routine called Sili-Coin chip - an ESP/prediction type of effect of 5 coins with different colourted stickers (Solutions Manuscript March 1995)

The now unavailable Fu-Manchu(?) plastic Okito Box had a load similar to a dove pan that would enable you to not only switch coins, but also load "gold dust", liquid or just about anything else you can imagine.

It's an interesting item, but I've never seen anyone (myself included) use one...?

Julie

A couple - first introducing the box by making it appear around the coins and for a finale having a volunteer put the coins into the box and having all the coins change when they open it.

Roth's handling (wow) made me dust my Okito box off and do the Out with Five.. ..

Julie, I had one of those Fu Manchu Boxes, never did use it. Thought it was one of the cleverest things in the drawer, though.

All I can say about offbeat Okito stuff is that there's something in the works. Something truly different from anything you've seen before.

One modest example I can tip:

Performer shows a closed box in his otherwise empty hands. He opens the box on a specator's palm, and it's empty. Magician squeezes the lid, and it becomes four coins. "But the bottom is the most important part," says the magician, "that's where I keep the replacement lids." So saying, he pulls another lid out of the bottom, and with it covers the box.

No sleeves, no trips to the pockets, can be done standing and completely in the hands, quick, kinda flashy, and no repetition. Offbeat?

Offbeat is just the beginning. It's probably out of tune and on the wrong page as well. But in a good way.

Al Schneider has a fantastic routine on volume 2 of his Schneider Technique DVD set. I really think you should take a look as its very magical and unique