Jamy absolutly ripped the Ammar book. Whoa!

Where can I read this review exactly?

Cups and balls - ah, the sweet delight of pursuing that holy grail of magic, that embodiment of so many aspects of our Art! And what a pain in the patootie it was when I was starting out! Now, after about 30 years of working on it, I have decided that keeping the routine simple, direct and forthright is the best way to do the cups.

In other words, I cheat.

Yep! That's right, I use a combo-cups set and have added a few ideas to the routine using the gimmick that makes it a lot more fun for me and seems to surprise the occasional magician who sees the routine as well. But that's all to the side.

To learn the cups, first decide just how deep you want to get into the routine - will you be using advanced moves like the wand spin vanish, galloping post or a slide steal from your palm, or will you be keeping it super simple and just do the progressive ball through the cup with no final load?

Learning the cups and can be a lifetime study - ask Bob Read, Michael Ammar or anybody who seriously studies the cups. Yes, the Ammar set is required material fos any serious student of the cups. Yes, the vast majority of cups routines out there are based on the Vernon routine in large or small part. No, this is not something you will pick up in a matter of days, or even weeks. be prepared to put some work into it.

But the rewards are well worth it.

For ancillary material on the cups, check out the Stevens Magic Emporium video on the cups and balls, especially the Johnny Paul routine. Your eyes will fall out when he throws the cups back and forth from hand to hand then produces the balls from inside the cups! A truly magical moment from a true master of the cups.

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Ammar's routine is on the Cups And Balls video from Stevens Magic Emporium. The routine he teaches on the two volume cups and balls video set is NOT his routine. It's Dai Vernons.

Ammar's routine (using the Silent Mora/Veron Wand spin) is probably the best all around routine there is. The appearance of the third ball in plain sight on top of the third cup is one of the all time best moments in cups and balls history.

Second best is probably "The Fruit Cups" which can be found in The Book (or don't forget to point) by The Flicking Fingers. It's a two cup routine using two different color balls (and a chop cup).

It is a true example of what is magic. And practice you will if you want to come anywhere near a routine as clean as his, IMHO. It's a great effect.

Yea I picked up the Ammar set for Christmas on a VHS blowout sale for $20.00! Can't go wrong there eh?

Michael Ammars COMPLETE CUPS AND BALLS Volume One

I purchased this last week. I am amazed at how little I knew about Cups and Balls. With a lot of practice there is a chance I could have a good routine! I also suggest getting a good set of cups and balls to practice with as well.

This routine is well worth the time it takes you to learn - however long it takes.
The reason Cups and Balls is a classic is because it teaches you MAGIC PRINCIPLES that you then apply to other forms of magic practice.
Learn the full routine step by step as Mark Wilson teaches in his Magic Course. Then you can shorten or lenghten your routine as your audience requires. You may find that your routine varies every time you perform it depending on how quickly you want to get to the final loads.

I don't know Jamy Ian Swiss personally. But here is a fellow who quite often gets it completely wrong. I really don't know what his problem with the Ammar videos is. It really doesn't matter. I have a lot of material on cups and balls, and I can say this, the Ammar DVDs actually give you some of the best instructions on this classic that you will find anywhere.

Some people have a problem with Michael's teaching style. I don't. Michael explains things very clearly and in great detail. The curriculum, if you wish to call it that, is structured. By the time you learn all of the material on the DVDs, you will be a very competent cups and balls worker, or maybe even better than that.

Mike has put more time in on the Vernon routine than most people spend on a whole act. He has also put a lot of time in on developing his own routine. His routine is very good. I'm not going to say it's the best around, but it is certainly a good one.

I'm not sure whose routine I would say I like best. Each time I see someone work the cups expertly and entertain me in the process, then I appreciate what he or she is doing.

And, in the long run, that is what counts.

I get a real kick from doing cups and balls, I'm not sure why? I was lost in the mists until I got hold of 'Complete Cups and Balls Vol 1' about 4 months ago, it is a real treat. With practice (ps I am an obsesive/compulsive personality)I have now progressed to the routine shown in that with a 3 lemon finish - I know there is further to go on my journey. I did this routine for my first piece of stand up magic infront of a small audience, and I'm sure I heard a few gasps when the final loads were revealed!
I could also suggest the Gazzo cups and balls book, nice ideas for patter and pschology (sp?) with cups and balls.
Keep putting the practice in, its such a great reward to be able to do this trick.

ps. I think Whit Hydn said in one of his previous posts 'magic as a hobby is best suited to obsesives and compulsives, and when you have left normalcy behind then you are truly a magician'.....how true

I'm a newby to all magic other than card really, but I am particularly intrigued by cups and balls as their seems to be no limit to the tricks you can perform with them. I want to purchase "the complete cups and balls vol 1", but am curious as to where from. I prefer not buying online as I'm not old enough to own a credit card, and I'd rather not use my parents, and I don't know whether you can order through waterstone's?

Hi Toasty, nice to meet you. I got my copy from magictricks.co.uk. Have you got any magic shops near by, maybe they could help?

In truth, you will never "learn" the cups and balls. Like the ambitiuos card or linking rings, there are endless variations and moves and flourishes. A golfer never learns the game of golf-he or she only improves at it. One of joys of this sleightly classic routine is that the more you learn, the more you know you don't know. If you get hooked on the C & B, as I am, it oculd becomea lifetime quest (and an enjoyable one at that).
David

I think the Ammar work is very good. Michael is a very clear teacher, and he was a personal student of Vernon's. He's not afraid to suggest how Vernon's treatments may be improved and encourages the student to develop their own routines from the building bocks presented rather than simply trot out an existing series of moves. Volume 2 is especially good with footage of Vernon performing in 1977 and other analysis of performing techniques, gained through a study of prints depicting C&B over hundreds of years of history. All in all, tremendous value for money.

Some of the work like the Mora/Vernon wand spin/vanish will take months of practice to get off. The timing needs to be precise. Ammar does it as demo with a ball the size of a tangerine, and it's a stunner. Well worth the price of the video for this move alone.

To be fair, Mr. Swiss recommended the videos, and slaughtered the book.
I tend to agree with Swiss in that. The book contains GREAT material, but the layout sucks! Lots of pictures, but too tiny, and those arrows looks awful! Further, if I want overlined text, I prefer to overline it myself, thankyou very much!

Bjørn

Toasty:

I'm not going to pick on you, but I will tell you this. When you write something like "I don't know whether you can order through waterstone's," most of us wonder why you haven't at least checked their web site. I don't live in the UK. But I do know how to use Google, and it took me exactly 14 seconds to find the waterstone's/Amazon.com web site and check on the availability of the DVD. According to their site. It isn't available. However, you do have a good lead there with magictricks.co.uk . I have ordered from them in the past, and their service is excellent. The items arrived in the States within a few days.

So check with them for the DVD's. You will be glad you did.

I think Jamy is jealous of Ammar's popularity and his success. I'm somewhat visually impaired, and I had no difficulty with the diagrams. I wasn't too thrilled about the way the text was done, but it didn't make me want to toss the book out.

I've considered getting the book (I have both video's), eventually I will. I have seen so much angry criticism of books and video's that I personally liked, that I would hope a person would not let opinions like that be their only guide in a purchase. Otherwise noone would ever buy anything. I think it's a "take it with a grain of salt" thing.

Hi Toasty

Try http://www.internationalmagic.com/

They've got a clearance of Ammar vids at £7.50 a time. Absolute bargains. Unfortunately they don't have volume 1 C&B any more, but volume 2 is well worth picking up.

If you don't want to use a credit card then give them a phone. They'd probably accept a tenner in the post or postal order etc.

Also, if your ever down in London, International Magic is well worth a visit. Very near to Holborn on the central line.

There are a couple of things in the book that aren't in the videos.

Regarding International Magic -- Ron MacMillan is one of the nicest guys in the business. The first time I was in London, I did a tour of the magic shops -- visited Alan Alan (it is very difficult carrying on a serious conversation with a fellow who is wearing a comedy arrow through the head gadget!), then went to Davenport's, and finally over to International. Ron gave me the royal treatment.

There is one heck of a lot of really good stuff available in London. And also, if you have some time to travel, you should visit some of the shops in other parts of the UK as well. I know Glasgow seems a long way off, but it's worth a trip up there to visit Roy Walton occasionally.

There are some really good places to visit in the UK.

Bill's right about the book having material that is not in the videos. This in part applies to the “Bonus Chapter” where you can consider the advice from a considerable list of top international working pros. Plus at the end of the book is a partial bibliography that contains a list of information that you can use to buy other cups and balls literature that you proably wouldn't find otherwise.

The book and video's are a great set to own TOGETHER, and I recommend owning it. On the video Ammar teaches various openings, middles, and endings for you to use while building your own routine. If I recall correctly, he teaches his own routine as well as Vernon's. I'll have to get my videos out to check, but I think that I’m right. I own allot of cups material, in fact pretty much everything that has been put out on video I have- and Ammar's video's still taught me things that I didn't know. Needless to say, the combination of the book and video’s give the student the largest ‘single source’ of material on the cups and balls that you can find in today’s market.

Bill is right on another point that Ammar teaches better than most people. From what I’ve experienced, most magicians either love him or hate him. I know plenty of people who are veteran’s of the cups, yet still review Ammar’s work on a regular basis. Perhaps the learning process is a bit slow for some, but when learning from Ammar you clearly learn not only the moves; but the in-depth reasons for the moves and the required misdirection.

A final comment regarding the book being “cluttered”, the book at first glance may look cluttered with the green highlights; but if you read and study them you find that Ammar is pointing out the important "work" in the book to give the reader more emphasis on certain movements and misdirection. All he is doing is offering the reader more insight through a variety of mediums. With that being said, the book is far from cluttered though. Personally, I had enough room to make plenty of notes in my 'practice' copy of the book- so it isn't as bad as someone stated earlier on this thread.

All and all, go to Ammar’s website and purchase the set. He is having a huge sale, and you can get a great deal. His cups video’s are only $20 for the set! His website is listed here at http://store.yahoo.com/ammarmagic/cupandbalpro.html He even has some cups for only a $100, but I don’t know anything about them, or their quality. Oh, and I don't have anything to do with M.Ammar, and I have never met him- although hopefully some day I will.

MM