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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Mental Frisbee - Nathan Kranzo (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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John C
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Quote:
On 2007-11-13 18:48, randirain wrote:
Well... I just bought it.
Nothing like a good opener!

Nathan used to live around the Fort Worth/Dallas area.
I never got to meet him, but I know people who did and do know him.
I have been told about some of his stuff and everyone says he is very clever.
These are my friends and I trust them.
And if he says this good, I believe him, so I bought it.

I do have a question though.
It says good for 30 or 3000.
What if it's a smaller group than 30?
Still work? still good?

Randi


I bought it too. Looking forward to it. I guess, Randi, if you throw 5 frisbees then use one more spec then the trick would work for 6 people. There's usually an usher in the audience to watch the effect. Smile

John
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Rudy Sanchez
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 13:17, randirain wrote:
Good point.

But what is HPN?
I may want to rip this off too. Smile

Randi


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Rudy
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dmm
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It's one of the things as a creator, your ***ed if you do and ***ed if you don't!

I would love to have more information on this routine as I am extremely interested.

However there are so many unscrupulous people out there.

So you have to way, Do I give more information, possibly sell more and have more people not only rip me off, but because they do not own the original do a much poorer version.

OR

Do I hold out some of the information, maybe some will buy maybe some will not, but at least my material is psomewhat protected?

Either way if your not happy with the description at hand (like I am) wait to hear more about it, or reviews from others.

No matter what you choose, this sounds like it could have great potential, good luck with it Nathan!
ritty360
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http://www.hismagic.com/?page_id=81

Nathan added a bit more to his description of the effect and I think it is sufficient. The additional hints should give everyone a good idea as to blocking and how this would look. The more I thought about it, the more I realized how professional this really is...

For instance, the most uncomfortable part of any show for me is the seemingly nightmarish length is takes to find a willing volunteer and them for them to make thier way t the stage. There is a potential for a pause....ok so you fill it with some cracks and hurry that person forward. This, if I am correct, would take the pressure off the spectator with scripting that makes sense and will be funny without making someone uncomfortable and feel pushed.

Additionally, and here is the kicker for me....nobody uses frisbees. Except now Randy (we are in potentially the same market). There is a bit of a hook as it adds to the randomness of the outcome.

I know a lot of you don't know me from Adam, but I am very critical of stuff that is out on the market today. I think Nathan has a good one here. This won't, however, be for everyone and perhaps that is a good thing.

PS- I knew Nathan before he left Dallas and worked at MagicLand. I bought his lecture video and still use some of that material. He is one that actually doesn't put out junk and actually puts out material that he created. I am not making any money from this and will be having to purchase at full price if I am going to get it, but in observing other stuff he's done it works for me...
Gianni
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 12:40, truthteller wrote:
If the magic community as a whole respected a creator's ideas, then Nathan (and others) could be more forthcoming about their routines.


I don't see how that comment is relevant to the fundamental questions being asked about this routine. The fundamental questions - at their core - simply ask what the audience will SEE when the color is revealed? It is not enough to say that the color is announced and your hunch is proven to be correct. If you are asking someone to buy the effect sight unseen or without a demo, more is required. HOW do you reveal that your "hunch" about the color is correct: do you slide a big card that says "GREEN" out of an envelope? Does the spectator slide a card that says "GREEN" out of the envelope? Do you remove an envelope from your wallet that reveals the chosen color? etc.

It is completely appropriate to ask what the audience will SEE. And it is disengenuous to suggest that with proper audience skills it is not relevant what the audience sees, but what it remembers. As magicians buying an effect, it is fair to ask what will lie in plain view after we've paid for the effect.

Gianni
magic777
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 15:14, ritty360 wrote:
http://www.hismagic.com/?page_id=81

Additionally, and here is the kicker for me....nobody uses frisbees.


Derren Brown uses them frequently, throwing them out to select audience members "at random."

I don't doubt this effect could be good entertainment if played right, but due to the vaguenes of the description, I personally don't think it is anyone's best interest to pre-order. Wait for the actual performance reviews and then judge more closely. That's what I'll be doing anyway.
randirain
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Quote:
Additionally, and here is the kicker for me....nobody uses frisbees. Except now Randy (we are in potentially the same market). There is a bit of a hook as it adds to the randomness of the outcome.


Well... ritty360
You are in McKinney and I am in Fort Worth.
I have done one show in McKinney and have not done another anywhere close to it.
It is just too long of a drive.
I have been asked, but my price, to drive out there, is always too high.
So we are potentially in the same market... yes... but potentially is the key word.

And...

Please learn to spell my name correctly.
It really bugs me when people spell it with a 'Y'.

Thanks,

Randi
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truthteller
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 15:17, Gianni wrote:


I don't see how that comment is relevant to the fundamental questions being asked about this routine. The fundamental questions - at their core - simply ask what the audience will SEE when the color is revealed? ... It is completely appropriate to ask what the audience will SEE.

Gianni


Wrong.

If the revelation itself is the novelty then that is what you are paying for - as in the case of the human phone number. To give that away is to give the store away. I do not know if that is the case here, but if the revelation falls into the same strata as the routine - if that is what you are paying for - then to describe it is to give it away.



Quote:
And it is disengenuous to suggest that with proper audience skills it is not relevant what the audience sees, but what it remembers.
Never said that. Try again.

Quote:
If you are asking someone to buy the effect sight unseen or without a demo, more is required...As magicians buying an effect, it is fair to ask what will lie in plain view after we've paid for the effect.


Let's get away from this infantile notion that ANYTHING is required of a creator. They owe you as a potential purchaser NOTHING. Why? Because you are not required to buy from them. If you do not care for the amount of information they provide, the answer is simple - walk away. This sense of entitlement has really gotten out of hand. The creator makes the choice of how much he or she wants to describe. The only person who has to deal with the ramifications of that choice is them. Sure, it can hurt sales, but shouldn't that be the creator's decision?

No one owes you anything. Nothing is "required." Buy it, don't buy it. Simple choice, really.
MagicDog
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Truthteller well said, The truth of it all will be known if a matter of a few weeks.

John
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Steve Hook
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Brad Truthteller said:

Let's get away from this infantile notion that ANYTHING is required of a creator. They owe you as a potential purchaser NOTHING. Why? Because you are not required to buy from them. If you do not care for the amount of information they provide, the answer is simple - walk away. This sense of entitlement has really gotten out of hand.
__________________________________________________________

Right freakin'-on, Brad.

That's about the best, most succinct way of expressing this problem I've seen in print at TMC yet.

Isn't it obvious that if the description was any more specific, it would open too many cans of worms for the seller? I'm sure he'd like to write more, but he can't without giving away too much and/or having to be even MORE ellusive.

If you don't like the ad, please move on to the next topic in TRICKS & EFFECTS. It's that simple. Move on! There's no shame in that! You'll be happier and so will Nate! You will actually survive as a human if you don't get a full description of the effect AND/OR if you don't buy this trick!
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Long live Lowell and Richie!
Gianni
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 20:18, truthteller wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-15 15:17, Gianni wrote:


I don't see how that comment is relevant to the fundamental questions being asked about this routine. The fundamental questions - at their core - simply ask what the audience will SEE when the color is revealed? ... It is completely appropriate to ask what the audience will SEE.

Gianni


Wrong.

If the revelation itself is the novelty then that is what you are paying for - as in the case of the human phone number. To give that away is to give the store away. I do not know if that is the case here, but if the revelation falls into the same strata as the routine - if that is what you are paying for - then to describe it is to give it away.



Quote:
And it is disengenuous to suggest that with proper audience skills it is not relevant what the audience sees, but what it remembers.
Never said that. Try again.

Quote:
If you are asking someone to buy the effect sight unseen or without a demo, more is required...As magicians buying an effect, it is fair to ask what will lie in plain view after we've paid for the effect.


Let's get away from this infantile notion that ANYTHING is required of a creator. They owe you as a potential purchaser NOTHING. Why? Because you are not required to buy from them. If you do not care for the amount of information they provide, the answer is simple - walk away. This sense of entitlement has really gotten out of hand. The creator makes the choice of how much he or she wants to describe. The only person who has to deal with the ramifications of that choice is them. Sure, it can hurt sales, but shouldn't that be the creator's decision?

No one owes you anything. Nothing is "required." Buy it, don't buy it. Simple choice, really.


Could not disagree more. Truthteller, you are a zealot on a mission to protect creators from being taken advantage of by us, the great unwashed magic buyers. As with most zealots, you take up the defense at the earliest possibility that someone will want an inappropriate inducement to part with their funds. And you generally pull the trigger way before it is necessary to protect the creator.

I have every right to determine how much is necessary to induce me to part with my money. My position on this is simple: I have not been induced by the advertisements to buy the effect. You are quick to jump in and say that a magic creator owes the buyer nothing. Well, I don't owe the seller anything either, not my money nor a leap of faith that the effect will meet my needs. Neither notion is infantile, as you put it. My post is simply my statement that the ad for the effect is too vague to induce a sight unseen purchase. That's fair.

Gianni
randirain
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Quote:
My post is simply my statement that the ad for the effect is too vague to induce a sight unseen purchase.

Ok.. and Brad says that's fine if you think that.
Don't buy it, move on, it's ok.
It's his choice to put what he wants in the ad.
And it's your choice if you like the ad or not.
I don't see the problem.

I thought it sounded good and I bought it.
I have a feeling that when I get it, that I won't be able to fill in much more info.
I have a feeling there is a reason why so vague.
But I will be able to tell you what I think of it.
So why don't we just wait?

Randi
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blakeherridge
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LOL I cant wait to hear your review Randi!
truthteller
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 00:20, Gianni wrote:
My position on this is simple: I have not been induced by the advertisements to buy the effect.

Gianni


Then don't.

See, wasn't that easy.
randirain
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Quote:
Ok.. and Brad says that's fine if you think that.
Don't buy it, move on, it's ok.

Oops... I mean...
Ok.. and truthteller says that's fine if you think that.
Don't buy it, move on, it's ok.

:)

Randi
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magic777
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Truthteller, some people here are going to big this effect up, like it was the best thing since sliced bread. Others among us have every right to explain why we are waiting for more evidence. Isn't that the nature of a discussion board?

If we didn't all offer our opinions in their various shades, and the reasons for them, you may as well ask Mr Brooks to shut down the board. It would all be very boring.

Let the discussion continue.... both for and against!
John C
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 19:05, magic777 wrote:
Truthteller, some people here are going to big this effect up, like it was the best thing since sliced bread. Others among us have every right to explain why we are waiting for more evidence. Isn't that the nature of a discussion board?

If we didn't all offer our opinions in their various shades, and the reasons for them, you may as well ask Mr Brooks to shut down the board. It would all be very boring.

Let the discussion continue.... both for and against!


I won't BIG it up. I'll let you know what I think. I am a simpleton. I don't like to work. I like the effect to work for me. I think it sounds cool.

The only hesitation and what would make me unhappy is if the price DOESN'T go up to $174 after the preorder date. Smile

John
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Chessmann
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Personally, I feel that Truthteller's position is the correct one. Nathan is a seller, and will probably do everything possible to sell his product without compromising its value. If he does not provide certain pieces of information, it is probably for a good reason. Based on Nathan's reputation, it would seem unlikely that he is witholding something bad so he can make more sales.

Don't purchase it unless it is a comfortable purchase. Not satisfied with the description? Wait till people whose opinions you value review it.
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Gregory57
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I must agree with Chessman. Reputaton does play a part, and as for a reason for the vague description, it would appear obvious that to provide more detailed information would compromise the method, a method which I believe may be correct and which someone in this thread has already referenced. Also, your obviously not paying for the frisbees, unless I'm way off base and there's some major gimmicks incorporated into the props Smile It's the scripting, the presentation, the ENTERTAINMENT value, which is gold to a performer.
Cliff Gregory Wollin
magic777
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Quote:
(The effect description)
The method is based on clever principles combined with being WAAAAY ahead of the audience...


Ah well, bring on Tarbell and Mr Wilson. It seems like the real work on this effect is how the scripting and the performer's personality interacts with the audience, and I have to say it does sound good in that respect. I've no problem with that, it's the foundation of magic.

But, on the other hand I think the guys who will buy at that price are all adult magicians who understand the game. Why conceal a basic method by a vague description, when the method will only be understood by the initiated anyway. It is important, if the performer uses a variation of that method elsewhwere in his act, then it would not be wise to push two similar ideas in the same gig.

As stated, you are not paying for the method or the plastic frisbees. You are paying for the work behind the presentation. How that will mesh with a variety of performance styles is the acid test.
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