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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » It's official! Everything we do is wrong. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Josh Riel
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As I shoveled my way through the "Laws of this" and "Rules for that" and "Worst of words" and "never say so and so" I realized that, assuming I can believe the mountain of wearisome absolutes, every magician is wrong. Everything any magician does is incorrect, and in most cases is the harbinger of death for our art.

So, I wonder..... Perhaps "some among us" don't know half as much "they" delude "them"selves into believing?

So, is this right or wrong?
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Andy the cardician
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Right.
Cards never lie
Whit Haydn
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Watch the work.

Many people talk the talk.

Look at their work. Is it beautiful and sound and have integrity?

Would you be proud to present such magic? Would you want to see it again?

Don't listen to the crap you hear from those whose work you wouldn't look at twice.

Find the ones whose performances turn you on.

Those are the ones you should listen to when they talk about what they do.

They are the ones who walk the walk.

Not every magician is wrong. The ones you love are right.
Andy the cardician
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I would say, they are right most of the time. After all, we are all only human.
Cards never lie
Scott Cram
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Dai Vernon agrees! When he first started adding the bit exposing a fake take of the ball in his Cups & Balls routine, he got plenty of criticism for it!

Perhaps a better name for "rules" or "laws" would be "guidelines". Although, they are more fun to break if they're called "rules"!

To help with the frustration of being told you're wrong, here's some musical relaxation.
tommy
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I listen to Whit as a rule. Smile


However I am also fan of Stephen Fry.

http://www.videojug.com/interview/stephe......-believe



How do we know what to believe?
To me, it's so important that people test everything anybody says, don't just believe it. They test it either literally as an experiment, which is how you're supposed to learn science, the good old Neufeld empirical way, or, if it's a fact about what it is to be alive, test it against experience, against what you have experienced as a human being. But don't take anything to believe on trust. Now that doesn't mean, again, just being bloody-minded, going, "Why, that's just your opinion. That's your opinion, isn't it? Well, I don't see why that's true because that's just your opinion." You know. "It's your opinion that Shakespeare's good, and it's my opinion that he's ...." You know, that is, unfortunately, the way most of the people one was at school with behaved, in different accents perhaps, but that's, you know, the kind of feeble excuse people use for not thinking.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
JackScratch
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You can't always learn from a successful magician. Style must match the personality presenting it. I'll tell you what I've always said. You want to learn how to entertain. The only source for that information is your audience. You MUST listen to them. Everything you learn from any other source is just theory. Every performance you create is worthless till it has been judged by them.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-11-14 22:51, Josh Riel wrote:...and in most cases is the harbinger of death for our art.

So, I wonder..... Perhaps "some among us" don't know half as much "they" delude "them"selves into believing?

So, is this right or wrong?


Wrong for who? And in what context?

Till those invisible elephants called presuppositions are seen and properly cared for they will knock over the most clever structures and trample the best intents of the deluded.

Say hi to them - they're your elephants.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
enginemagic
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I noticed that people don't do anny thing right now days,,,,,, LOL
that's why its hard to find anny one dedicated to their works,or we do the best we can. getting really familiar with a subject is Key in doing a good job at it.
theres a lot to learn out there,many interesting subjects,and hobbies to enjoy
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-11-14 22:51, Josh Riel wrote:

So, I wonder..... Perhaps "some among us" don't know half as much "they" delude "them"selves into believing?



I freely admit that I only know half of what I need to know. Fortunately for me it's the right half. Thus I can do no wrong as I don't know what wrong is.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Donal Chayce
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 02:39, Whit Haydn wrote:
Watch the work.

Many people talk the talk.

Look at their work. Is it beautiful and sound and have integrity?

Would you be proud to present such magic? Would you want to see it again?

Don't listen to the crap you hear from those whose work you wouldn't look at twice.

Find the ones whose performances turn you on.

Those are the ones you should listen to when they talk about what they do.

They are the ones who walk the walk.

Not every magician is wrong. The ones you love are right.


Beautifully said. I couldn't agree more.
tommy
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Unofficially. Nothing you do is right. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
P.T. Murphy
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 09:21, JackScratch wrote:
You can't always learn from a successful magician.


There is ALWAYS something to learn from every performance you watch, ALWAYS.
P.T. Murphy
www.ptmurphy.com
Andy the cardician
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Spot on - and even it the performance is bad, you learn what not to do.
Cards never lie
JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2007-11-15 16:19, P.T. Murphy wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-15 09:21, JackScratch wrote:
You can't always learn from a successful magician.


There is ALWAYS something to learn from every performance you watch, ALWAYS.


I understand what you are saying, and it doesn't counter what I'm saying. A "wrong way" sign may tell you where not to go, but it wont get you where you want to go. We learn from observation. We sometimes learn what works for us. We sometimes learn what works for other, but not for us. And sometimes we learn what doesn't work for anyone.
Josh Riel
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I know I'm kind of odd. Maybe my sisters/Mothers/Brothers dyslexia rubbed off?

But I imagine that a successful magician, became successful somehow. Now, it might not be his magic, it might not be his personality, but something made him successful, and I would like to learn what it is.

Whatever the case I would be more interested in being taught by a successful magician, than one who is... otherwise. And one thing I have noticed from the magicians I respect most is that they seem to take pride in always learning.

However, as I have learned from many threads, learning from experienced people is wrong.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 00:09, Josh Riel wrote:...I imagine that a successful magician, became successful somehow. Now, it might not be his magic, it might not be his personality, but something made him successful, and I would like to learn what it is...


Good question - and approach.

There's a process called modeling which has been formalized by the NLP folks which may serve your interests.

IMHO you would be well advised to learn some pacing and rapport skills before asking those you wish to learn from "how do you know when..." questions.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
erlandish
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Quote:
It's official! Everything we do is wrong.


Taken from Mad Magazine...

Lone Ranger: "Indians! Indians all around us! Well, Tonto, ol' Kemo Sabe, it looks like we're finished!"
Tonto: "What you mean: WE?"
The Jester Extraordinaire : bderland.com
Ye Olde Magick Blogge : erlandish.blogspot.com
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