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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Yet another China thread ... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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balducci
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Someone ELSE can fact check this story. I'm just posting it for the amusement value. Have at it ...

"The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar......_id=1811

When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.

One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.

Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".

The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.

Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.

He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.

"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Let me give you a bit of background before I say what I'm going to say should Balducci want to one up it.

I was in the US Navy and assigned to Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay, Georgia, from 1979 to 1983, the Trident sub base on the East Coast. I later was on the USS Obannon, a destroyer that's main job was to hunt subs and carried a helo crew whos only function was to hunt subs.

First of all I giggle when I saw the Chinese had diesel boats. The writers of that article have no knowledge if the Chinese bubble boat was detected or not, none, zippo....that information is never, ever, put out as a confirm or deny. Another thing, if that bubble boat surfaced it was an extremely stupid move on the part of the Chinese. Why? Because the Chinese wouldn't want to tip that they actually had the skill or the boat to penitrate the fleet without detection, it invites analysis of the data that does exist from the ships to determine the signiture of the boat and in the extremely unlikely event that it really wasn't detected it would be the next time. US bubble boats are so quiet that they have to make fake sounds because the Soviets started looking for the large pocket of silence rather than noise. So while a Chinese bubble boat may have surfaced, likely to recharge batteries, it is very unlikely it wasn't detected. When a boat surfaces at sea it gets very interesting very quickly, I've witnessed US boats surfacing first hand and seen what goes on with every ship in the area showing up to see it.

Okay, there you have my thoughts. Mr. Balducci if you have more experience with the subs and sub hunters than I then I welcome your comments.
balducci
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I have no further comment. I just thought it was a funny story. Like I said, someone else can do the fact checking on this one.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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You found it funny? How very odd... was it the way the article was written, poorly, that made you giggle or do you have some bizarre desire to see the US Navy destroyed and the idea of a carrier sinking make you laugh? There is no fact checking to be done because the Navy won't comment and really isn't concerned about some anti America Canadian giggling.
Rupert Bair
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Like yourself and Doug, a lot of your articles seem to be from UK newspapers world news, our our media superior?
Corona Smith
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Daily Mail is for racist bigots. Interesting trivia though. Did you know that 76 people a year die from playing twister?
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 15:02, MagicSanta wrote:
You found it funny? How very odd... was it the way the article was written, poorly, that made you giggle or do you have some bizarre desire to see the US Navy destroyed and the idea of a carrier sinking make you laugh? There is no fact checking to be done because the Navy won't comment and really isn't concerned about some anti America Canadian giggling.


Make no mistake, MagicSanta, the world enjoys seeing superpowers embarrassed. Why do you suppose that there are so many anti-China sentiments expressed? It is a low humour, but it is real nonetheless.

Your comments, however, are very appropriate: there is nothing funny about loss of life, actual or potential.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Rupert Bair
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 16:46, Corona Smith wrote:
Daily Mail is for racist bigots. Interesting trivia though. Did you know that 76 people a year die from playing twister?


Jeez! They wouldn't print a story like that would they! Cheat! =P
stoneunhinged
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National weakness -- real or perceived -- can tempt aggression and thus cause war. That's why the United States cannot neglect its military strength. We must and we will remain strong. But with equal determination, the United States and all countries must find ways to control and reduce the horrifying danger that is posed by the world's enormous stockpiles of nuclear arms.
Rupert Bair
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I have just been talking about forces of potential destruction that mankind has developed, and how we might control them. It is equally important that we remember the beneficial forces that we have evolved over the ages, and how to hold fast to them.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 15:02, MagicSanta wrote:

There is no fact checking to be done because the Navy won't comment and really isn't concerned about some anti America Canadian

In your eyes I may appear "anti-American", but that is not the case at all. Of course, it was totally predictable that someone would play the "anti-American" card so I'm not especially surprised that you did.

As you seemed to imply in your post, a diesel powered sub is hardly a threat and it almost certainly was detected. And who said anything about a loss of life, or giggled at a loss of life? I did nothing of the sort. So forget about it. Thanks for your clarification on that matter of subs surfacing, though.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
stoneunhinged
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Playing the "anti-American" card. Cool. As in the OJ case, playing the "race" card.

I want to play the "I'm drunk and that's a good excuse for cheating on my wife" card.

My son wants to play the "I didn't do my homework because I didn't understand it" card.

My wife regularly plays the "when are you finally going to paint the fence in front of our house" card.

I haven't the slightest idea what this thread is about (card). But the "card" is just a bit cliche, don't you think?

Jeff (Playing the Stoneunhinged "card")
MagicSanta
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Basing it on the history this guy has. I've never seen anyone post so much anti anything as this guy does anti-American material. A kid gets tazed in Florida, the Canadians are all over it, a Polish immigrant gets tazed in Canada and dies on video and....zippo.

Hey, I'm full aware that Canada is full of socialist who hate the US, I really don't care what they think up there. As a Navy guy it bothers me the joy he seems to get thinking a Chinese sub can sneak on on a US ship...which I don't think really happened.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 17:28, MagicSanta wrote:
Basing it on the history this guy has. I've never seen anyone post so much anti anything as this guy does anti-American material. A kid gets tazed in Florida, the Canadians are all over it, a Polish immigrant gets tazed in Canada and dies on video and....zippo.

Hey, I'm full aware that Canada is full of socialist who hate the US, I really don't care what they think up there.

And now the Santa plays the "blame and denigrate" Canadians card. How sad, yet so predictable.

Concerning the taser incident in Canada. That was a very sad story, but I'm sure if I had mentioned that you would have yelled at me for bashing the American company TASER International Inc. Or for being "anti-gun". Or for for speaking out against Tasers or cops. As you already did to other people in this post:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5228638

So why would I want to set you off by mentioning another Taser incident?

Incidentally, I spoke out in favour of Tasers in that earlier thread.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 17:28, MagicSanta wrote:

Hey, I'm full aware that Canada is full of socialist who hate the US, I really don't care what they think up there.


Now, now. Give the respect that you demand.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
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I don't demand anything from you all. There are plenty of Canadians who are socialist who hate the US. I know one in particular who is a talented writer and magician, I actually asked Balducci if he was that individual some time ago because they share the same attitudes. The difference is the individual I know has good qualities if you keep him off his politics, which he has enough sense to stay away from when dealing with magic. Since there are a number of Canadians here who seem to love nothing more than capping on the US it has nothing to do with respect. I don't care if Canadians respect the US or not, I don't care to hear their blather. If they want to dish it they can accept it back. If you don't like it that is too bad as well. There are many fine Canadians then there is Celine.

As for the comment about diesel boats that technology ended almost 50 years ago and it gives some indication of the technical level of Chinese built bubble boats.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 19:20, MagicSanta wrote:
I don't demand anything from you all.


In that case, America is a pee pee hat.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
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There you go....just remember kids, others may have let the nonsense go, I'll challenge you.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2007-11-16 19:20, MagicSanta wrote:

I know one in particular who is a talented writer and magician, I actually asked Balducci if he was that individual some time ago because they share the same attitudes. The difference is the individual I know has good qualities if you keep him off his politics ...

Lol. I have to laugh that you think you "get" my attitudes when it is clear from your posts that you keep assigning me beliefs I do not ascribe to. Whatever.

I think you are just stressing because Canada has the cuter kittens:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=4i6CSoct4lE
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Big Jeff
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I lost all respect for canada when they bood the US national anthem during a Stanley cup game. I also heard about canadians disrespecting the US anthem at a jumior world hockey game in ND. We have a local ECHL hockey team here and when canadian teams come I don't stand for their anthem.
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