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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Books, Pamphlets & Lecture Notes » » Help me find a good trick in Tarbell (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Ryan Matney
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I was just speaking generally. Card College has the added benifit of being a compilation of a LOT of worthwhile ideas that have been published in the 50 years since Tarbell.
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Jeff Dial
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A little late, but Nate Leipzig's Card Through Handkerchief Vol 3. p.255.
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
Greg Arce
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It's funny, Shoot Ogawa is considered one of the leading creators of new close up magic... the only books he ever reads and goes back to constantly are the Tarbell books. I guess he just doesn't know much about magic. Poor Shoot.

Greg
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Larry Barnowsky
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Ed Marlo's One at a Time Aces is a GREAT trick in Tarbell in the 4 aces trick section (vol 2?). I use my own version of it in my working repertoire.

Larry
Kjellstrom
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Gerald Kosky´s Prediction is a fine example of good mentalism. Tarbell 6, page 216. This concept is so simple but very smart and if you learn it yo will use it.

"Gerald Kosky, aka "Mr. Moto", was considered one of the top card magicians of all time."

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Joshua Barrett
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 09:52, Larry Barnowsky wrote:
Ed Marlo's One at a Time Aces is a GREAT trick in Tarbell in the 4 aces trick section (vol 2?). I use my own version of it in my working repertoire.

Larry


I think vol 3 Smile
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2007-11-30 11:46, pierredan wrote:
You Tarbell lovers really put a smile on my face.

Instead of simply pointing out one good trick in Tarbell, most of you spend you time preaching the "gospel of Tarbell". Have faith, its all great...

Not that you guys may care, but 3 out 5 of the magic session guys came to the conclusion that there are better books worth our time and efforts. Card College, Stars of Magic, all of Darwin Ortiz's books, Vernon's many books, Greater magic...

I've been a magic hobbiest for more than 20 years. Tarbell has never really been able to reach me and I doubt it ever will.


This is a typical answer from one who is merely a dabbler and not a student of magic. You want us to help you find a really good effect in Tarbell. Did you ever think of simply opening one of the volumes?

Volume 7, page 187, Dave Lederman's Thimble and Pea routine.
Volume 2, page 131 ff. Cigarette magic -- which contains a routine recently sold as original.
Volume 4, page 124, Audley Walsh's Jump up Card.

I found those three effects in less than 5 minutes by opening the volumes at random pages. I also found one that had already been mentioned.

There's just one problem with all of these. You would have to practice them. If you aren't willing to take the effort to pull a book off a shelf and open it at a random page, you certainly aren't willing to practice.

Do you actually have a trick that you have done a thousand times? Have you ever honed a trick to perfection? Have you ever recorded each performance of any trick and listened to what you are saying, just to make sure it could be effective?

Pierre, it's not the trick. It's the magician that does the entertaining.

If you don't learn anything else from the things I have written in my 14,000+ posts, that should be the primary thing you learn.

The Tarbell books are, to an extent, dated. Greater Magic is even more dated.
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sethb
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Quote:
On 2007-11-30 11:46, pierredan wrote: You Tarbell lovers really put a smile on my face. . . . Not that you guys may care, but 3 out 5 of the magic session guys came to the conclusion that there are better books worth our time and efforts. Card College, Stars of Magic, all of Darwin Ortiz's books, Vernon's many books, Greater magic...

Nobody is saying that the Tarbell Course is the "Holy Grail" of magic books. However, as a general reference, most magicians agree that it is hard to beat.

Of course, there are plenty of more specialized books out there that deal with specific areas of magic, but again, it all depends upon what you need. Just because you can't find what you want in Tarbell doesn't mean that someone else hasn't or won't be able to. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Joshua Barrett
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Quote:
On 2007-12-11 01:13, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-30 11:46, pierredan wrote:
You Tarbell lovers really put a smile on my face.

Instead of simply pointing out one good trick in Tarbell, most of you spend you time preaching the "gospel of Tarbell". Have faith, its all great...

Not that you guys may care, but 3 out 5 of the magic session guys came to the conclusion that there are better books worth our time and efforts. Card College, Stars of Magic, all of Darwin Ortiz's books, Vernon's many books, Greater magic...

I've been a magic hobbiest for more than 20 years. Tarbell has never really been able to reach me and I doubt it ever will.


This is a typical answer from one who is merely a dabbler and not a student of magic. You want us to help you find a really good effect in Tarbell. Did you ever think of simply opening one of the volumes?

Volume 7, page 187, Dave Lederman's Thimble and Pea routine.
Volume 2, page 131 ff. Cigarette magic -- which contains a routine recently sold as original.
Volume 4, page 124, Audley Walsh's Jump up Card.

I found those three effects in less than 5 minutes by opening the volumes at random pages. I also found one that had already been mentioned.

There's just one problem with all of these. You would have to practice them. If you aren't willing to take the effort to pull a book off a shelf and open it at a random page, you certainly aren't willing to practice.

Do you actually have a trick that you have done a thousand times? Have you ever honed a trick to perfection? Have you ever recorded each performance of any trick and listened to what you are saying, just to make sure it could be effective?

Pierre, it's not the trick. It's the magician that does the entertaining.

If you don't learn anything else from the things I have written in my 14,000+ posts, that should be the primary thing you learn.

The Tarbell books are, to an extent, dated. Greater Magic is even more dated.


Bill, must not be that dated with all the "new" effects right outta the book =)
Xpilot
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Quote:
On 2007-11-30 11:46, pierredan wrote:
Not that you guys may care, but 3 out 5 of the magic session guys came to the conclusion that there are better books worth our time and efforts. Card College, Stars of Magic, all of Darwin Ortiz's books, Vernon's many books, Greater magic...

Had you asked if there were better books than Tarbell then perhaps 3 out of 5 people here might have said there are better books.

But that's not what you asked (and not that we care).
MagicSanta
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Pierre, there are many excellent magic books and the Tarbell Course is extremely good. I am going to assume you are just attempting to stir things up and not as foolish as you seem.
Rennie
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I cannot believe there is actually someone in the magic field who DOES NOT LIKE Tarbell, not only that he has an attitude.
Many are trying to advise you, and give you help and you come up with an immature stupid remark. Why don't you put your Svengali Deck away until you grow up. Then when you age a little start reading Tarbell.
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
erlandish
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Quote:
On 2007-11-30 11:46, pierredan wrote:
You Tarbell lovers really put a smile on my face.

Instead of simply pointing out one good trick in Tarbell, most of you spend you time preaching the "gospel of Tarbell". Have faith, its all great...

A well-known performer has methods straight out of Tarbell that he uses in both his opener and his closer. I'd say his name to get the point across, but I hate doing other people's homework for them.

Quote:
Not that you guys may care, but 3 out 5 of the magic session guys came to the conclusion that there are better books worth our time and efforts.

Meaning 2 out of 5 still have hope? Cool.

Alright, that's perhaps an unnecessary dig. Still, I'm assuming those two guys tried to make a case for Tarbell? Did they make claims that you found fault with?
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pierredan
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Quote:
On 2007-12-16 03:05, MagicSanta wrote:
I am going to assume you are just attempting to stir things up and not as foolish as you seem.


Stir things up, I sure have. Smile It often leads to a more passionate and interesting thread.

To my surprise, I may be as foolish as I seem because I was not expecting the thread to take a turn for the worse. Oh well, lesson learned Smile
Ben Train
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Hey pierre,

From one Canadian to another- I agree with you (to some extent). I use Tarbell as a reference set, like an encyclopedia. I've never enjoyed going through them, except when looking for some interesting non card material.

They ARE dated, and anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken. This isn't necesaraly a bad thing- there are some great ideas that need a little fine tuning, but are still inherently good tricks.

Someone mentioned that since the 1600's nothing about our methods has changed. Really? I have a certain fondness for reading older books (including Neve's, Walker's, Green's, etc) and I disagree. Although Jogs, Breaks, and the pass were described, the majority of effects use very VERY unsophisticated methods. Tyler Wilson showed me the first card-reversal effect published, and it uses THREE passes to accomplish the "miracle". Tarbell, while obviously more sophisticated, is inherently going to have dated material because it's close to what, 80 years old now?

To say simply that opening the book anywhere will reveal a good trick is nonsense- I can only think of 2 books that fit the bill- and Tarbell isn't one of them. I'll bet I could post the names of several tricks that outright STINK if I needed to.

Saying all that- there IS some good material inside those pages, especially if you are looking for non card. It also makes a great reference source, like greater magic or the James Files.

Anywho, just my two cents.
Ben
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pierredan
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Hi Ben,

Remember me from the Ortiz workshop in Ottawa? That was one of the best “magic” days I have ever had. Spending the day with Darwin was a real eye opener. I wonder what he thinks of Tarbell….

I have 2 questions for you:

What are the 2 books you are referring to?

About that Vernon quote, I never heard it before. What was the context of this conversation with David Roth?
MagicSanta
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One is expected to be able to make a routine that fits them. Those without that ability will find many of the presentations, written for the most part 70 to 80 years ago, to be dated.
erlandish
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 09:58, BenTrain (Nordatrax) wrote:
They ARE dated, and anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken.


Devil's Advocacy time...

Assuming we see the merits of personalizing material regardless of whether it was published last week, last decade, or the last century, is Tarbell dominated by tricks that simply CANNOT be personalized in this manner? If I were to try to personalize them, would the audience secretly react "This is alright, but it feels a little bit out of date to me."
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Ben Train
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Hey Pierre,

Of course I remember you bro! I had a great time, and part of the reason was because of the guys who were there. How many guys can say they learnt their Steven's control and bottom deal from a recognized master like Darwin Ortiz?

The Vernon story is WAAAAY to dirty to tell here. But, when me meet up next time I'll tell you the whole thing, over drinks and cards (I've got some really interesting- I think- touches on the Steven's work that I'll show you).

Erlandish,
If you want to fight, just say so...

Kidding bro.

As I should have mentioned, we can't fault Tarbell for being dated. There are certain sequences and utilities we now have at our disposal that simply hadn't been discovered at the time of it's publication. Now, saying that... there ARE some killer tricks, with some very interesting handlings (some rather sophisticated with all honesty).

To say that there are no good tricks is insane- a casual glance at the index would reveal some great material. To say they aren't somewhat dated is silly as well- the book was written before texts such as Expert Card Technique, the main body of Vernon and Marlo's work, and a plethora of other seminal sources were published. That doesn't mean the methods (or even, in some case, the presentations) aren't good- assuming your audiences haven't been studying modern card work they won't have a clue, but that doesn't mean they are as good as they can be, knowing what we know now. Finally, to say EVERYTHING'S good is something I cannot agree with. But, if you really believe that though- I envy you! I wish I could find more books that was JUST good material!

There are some things I use from it though, and there is one trick where I wish I did in jam sessions more often...

Ben
p.s.
One of the two books is, shocking, Erdnase (but wait, what about all that complaining about outdated methods for tricks? Shut up.)
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

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erlandish
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Ben,

Looking at the list of plots it's easy to find routines and presentations that are still very popular today.

We've got:

Coin False Transfers
The methods for "A Knotty Problem"
Ashes on the Arm (plus various number forces to use with it)
Cut and Restored Rope
Penetrating Rope Effects
Vanishing and Reappearing Salt
Torn and Restored Hankerchief
Sponge Balls (including a fantastic climax)
Cups and Balls
Various Card Controls
Do as I do
Colour-changing Deck
A Psychological Impossibility (great card trick for practicing the P)
Card to Orange
Methods for Making a Change Bag
Knotted Silks

And that's just in the first volume. Variations on the above plots have made it into many DVDs in the last 10 years or so -- kind of funny that for the price of a single DVD you can have them all in one book. In that list, there's performance pieces and techniques used by Richard Osterlind, Eugene Burger, Bill Malone, Whit Haydn, Paul Potassy, Al Baker, Gary Darwin, and David Stone, and that's not including the obvious (Card to Orange, Cups and Balls, and Cut and Restored Rope).

Cherry-picking opener and closer material from Volumes 2 to 8...
Miser's Dream
Rising Cards
Burned and Restored Bill
Card on the Ceiling
Card Stab Through Newspaper
Swallowing Needles
Swallowing Razor Blades
More Knotted Silks
4 Ace Openers from Marlo
Newspaper Headline Prediction
Card to Wallet

And that's leaving out the stuff that doesn't appeal to me personally (linking rings, stage apparatus, bizarrism/seance stuff, etc.), the stuff that I believe fits better into the middle of a set (many of the card tricks, ring and rope effects, etc.), as well as the opener and closer for that well-known performer I mentioned earlier (and I'm firmly of the opinion that a monkey could make that opener play strong).

The fact that it's a generalized text is going to handicap it -- for instance, it won't have as many cut & restored rope methods as Stewart James's Encyclopedia. I'll also certainly concede that in terms of card methods, Tarbell is going to be behind all sorts of other texts. Too much innovation has happened in the last 60 years or so in that area. But getting back to the original query, pierredan was looking for "a good trick in Tarbell". I'm having a hard time believing he couldn't turn a single one of the above into a good trick.
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