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Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-11-23 10:48, h2o wrote:
With a shiner,... As long as you can flash the card and see if it's a high card or a low card, that already gives you an edge.


This sounds great but when you start losing your money with this so-called edge, I promise you that you would re-evaluate your conclusion.

Your evaluation is okay for a game of Tonk or Black Jack when adding the value of the cards will suffice but what about knock rummy, gin or coon can? I once used what you said and lost my money because I knew the guy had a couple of high cards in his hand but what I didn't realize is that he had a meld and that adds up to nothing/no points; so I knocked and knocked and got broke.

I re-evaluated the situation and had to learn memory techniques so I could know what's exactly in a guys hand. Now that's the kind of odds that I like...knowing every card in his hand...that's like him playing with his cards face up. Remember readers that sometimes you might be playing a player and he knows about seconds and bottom dealing etc. therefore you can't beat him with these techniques and you don't want to lose him as a player/sucker so you play the light/shiner.

Note 1: Every cheating move is not about being able to stack or deal. What if the guy you're playing constantly picks up the deck and shuffles it before you can cull cards together in order to stack; you won't be able to beat him so what do you do? You play the light. Note 2: Because a guy is a cheater doesn't necessarily mean that he's on your level...that means he's still a sucker to you and needs to be broke; the light technique will work when other techniques won't.

Respectfully,

Doc
Expertmagician
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Doc,

Mmmmm, Interesting concept...while being 100% sure of your opponents cards is best. I always assumed that it also raises your risk of exposure.

Are you saying that having a significant edge is not good enough in the long run. Don't forget casinos win with a smaller edge then simply knowing if a player has a high card, etc.

I would guess it is OK if the player wins sometimes ???? If you knew every card all the time, your advantage will be VERY VERY high...so, high, you may scare off your fish ???

Thoughts ?
Long Island,

New York
Mike M
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The best shiner book in my opinion is by Tony Giorgio. Called The Allen-Giorgio Shiner, it came with a gold shiner designed to be fitted on the inner phalanx of the pinky. It was highly priced and limited to just a few. I grabbed it quickly, and have never seen another.
Stepanov
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On Polish movie "Great Shu" about card sharpers shown triangled shiner.

I use shiner in form of chess pawn with elastic band. "Head" of pawn keeped between fingers. On dangerous situation I just relax fingers and shiner goes in to the sleave.
Stepanov Oleg Anatolievich
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 10:14, Mike M wrote:
The best shiner book in my opinion is by Tony Giorgio. Called The Allen-Giorgio Shiner, it came with a gold shiner designed to be fitted on the inner phalanx of the pinky. It was highly priced and limited to just a few. I grabbed it quickly, and have never seen another.


What does this mess look like and what's in this shiner book? Is there some kind of memory technique a person can use or what?

I'm not being sarcastic or anything like that but how many ways can a person explain to someone about passing a card over a mirror/shiner and looking at it. All one needs to do is look down up, down up, down up. Down when you're looking at his card(s) and up when you're dealing your own (not necessary to see what you're getting).

Note: Your eyes must not constantly stare at the deck while dealing because the sucker may think that you're playing/reading marked cards on him.

WARNING: DO NOT PEEK THE TOP CARD OF THE DECK WHEN PLACING THE DECK DOWN IN ORDER TO SEE HIS FIRST PLUCKED CARD. THIS IS A SURE TIP OFF THAT YOU'RE PLAYING THE LIGHT TO ANY HUSTLER.

This is all I would say and I don't need a book to say it.


Respectfully,

Doc
jjsanvert
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The best shiner is permanently stuck on the bottom of your ring, so that you don't have to palm anything. When you want to use it, just turn slightly the ring so that the shiner is still inside the hand, but pointing upwards (at about 45°)- and deal the cards...
JJS
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 04:52, jjsanvert wrote:
The best shiner is permanently stuck on the bottom of your ring, so that you don't have to palm anything. When you want to use it, just turn slightly the ring so that the shiner is still inside the hand, but pointing upwards (at about 45°)- and deal the cards...


I have to disagree with you on this...this is only partially true. Why? If possible try to NEVER HAVE ANY INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE ON YOU IF YOU CAN.

Once I was playing black Jack with two guys, one young and the other old. The old guy was a hustler by the name of Doc (he's dead now) but I didn't know it at the time. While playing black jack and being inexperienced at that time, I used exactly what jjsanvert just mentioned and I *** near got myself hurt/killed. While trying to peek the top card as I told ya'll not to do in the previous post prior to dealing the hustler his card woke him up to me dealing the light. Out of nowhere this old guy tried to grab my wrist and said something to the fact about me seeing the cards, as I immediately pulled back I said "what...are these cards marked? The old guy quickly said no, no these cards aren't marked." The other guy who was known as a hustler and killer said to the old guy Doc. "Doc these cards better not be marked because I lost a lot of money to you blah, blah, blah." This is what got me off the hook in this situation and since that day I never played a light like that again.

A couple of days later when I had the time I went back down town to the jeweler who made my shiner and told him to dull the finish and to make me shiner pieces so that I can add and take away from it whenever I wanted. Note: I used funtak back then but Ammar's Magic Wax now because it's clear. Now just like the magic trick Crazy Spots (we used to call this trick) that us kids used to have when we were young, I took this idea and used it as a shiner technique to make my shiner piece disappear. If asked to take off my ring, while twisting it, I slide the shiner piece off and hand the dulled ring to the player as I palm and then stick the light to any place available.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3882469

Quote:
On 2004-11-18 09:50, Unknown419 wrote:
Jeff thanks for writing.

I'm not doing any video because like I said I'm too lazy and not trying to wake the dead.

Regarding the pinky ring...Jeff I hold the deck in my right hand instead of my left in order to deal. If I were holding it in my left hand it would be very akward to handle and see.

For the record those who deal with the deck in their left hand has to use a glimmer on the side of their middle finger or use the coin palm technique. I'm not saying that there isn't anyone who can do it but all those that I have seen do it, did it and was akward looking while doing it.

Doc

P.S. Jeff I've never heard or seen the himer ring before, I would like to see it one day. You learn something new about gambling moves everyday.

Note: To those who will use the polished ring will need to carry with them a jeweler's polishing cloth to keep it clean from dirt.


You can use his idea or mine...I like mine better. Everything else he said was absolutely correct.

Addendum: After that incident I didn't see the other guy for about 5 years because he went to jail but when he came out he told me about my ring (to my surprise) and I said, "what are you talking about?" He told me that the bottom of my ring was a shiner. I knew then that the old man Doc who I befriended told him before he died. I showed the guy my ring that it was dull and he forgot about it. Thank God for me dulling my ring.


Take Care

Doc
Pavloter
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Nice story Doc.

I don't have any cut cards with me now, but could it be used as a shiner, if you have it protruding slightly? If you use black cut card I think it is quite easy to see the card there, I'm not too sure as I don't have one around now.
Pavlo
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 15:29, Pavloter wrote:
I don't have any cut cards with me now, but could it be used as a shiner, if you have it protruding slightly? If you use black cut card I think it is quite easy to see the card there, I'm not too sure as I don't have one around now.


Most cut cards will have one shiny and one dull side to them. In theory, the shiny side can be used, but it doesn't always work out so well when it comes right down to it.

I personally think that shiners are more trouble than they are worth, in most cases. I have one, and it's a very nice one at that. I practiced with it, and have used it a handful of times.

Concealing a shiner, dealing a round to six or seven opponents, sighting every card dealt and assimilating this data (all the while operating at a normal pace and not appearing unnatural or preoccupied in the slightest) is a pipe dream.

However, using it to sight the cards dealt to a raise-a-holic, or the table bully, is a dream come true.

Splice,

I didn't catch the reference to mentalism in this thread's seminal post. Can you ever forgive me? I know it's ridiculous to think, even for a second, that you could come to a gambling forum seeking answers and get gambling related feedback.

Thanks for keeping me in line....

CC
h2o
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A shiner can be more suited for games where you have to deal 2 or 3 cards in a row to each player rather than just one. That gives you a better reason to look at your deck when you have to push 2 or 3 cards together.
jjsanvert
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Unknown419 - I am happy you are still alive, to tell us this story Smile
JJS
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-11-28 05:42, jjsanvert wrote:
Unknown419 - I am happy you are still alive, to tell us this story Smile


So am I.

Happy hustling.

Doc
Yiannis
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 16:36, card cheat wrote:
Concealing a shiner, dealing a round to six or seven opponents, sighting every card dealt and assimilating this data (all the while operating at a normal pace and not appearing unnatural or preoccupied in the slightest) is a pipe dream.


Not a pipe dream at all. Only a matter of proper training. The world record of remembering 52 mixed playing cards (value and suite) in order and backwards, is 26.28 seconds. That is, dealing 2 cards per second. And this record won't last for long. Memory techniques for such feat are available free on the internet, even the exact technique used by the guy who set this record this year. Six months to a year of consistent training will do the trick.

In a gambling setting you don't even have to remember 52 cards, which makes the overall process so much easier.
card cheat
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It's not the same in a game.

Try it.

Get back to us with your findings.

No offense intended. I just know what I'm talking about.

CC
Yiannis
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I don't believe that you have invested the time to learn a proper memory technique system.

Learn the Dominic O'Brien system, supercharge it with Ben Pridmore's technique, get a speed of less than 40 seconds for memorizing a whole deck and you get back to us with your findings.

Try it.

No offense intended. I just know what I'm talking about.
Unknown419
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Card Cheat I have to agree with Yiannis on this. Why? You see that I wrote in other post who were my teachers and Yiannis is one of them and this is the area in which he helped me in right along with Sal P.

Just like cards is our area memory training techniques is his.

Yiannis I purchased the Dominic O'Brien system like you told me but you just hit me with something new. What with this Ben Pridmore's technique that you're talking about? I would like info on this so that I can purchase this too. I also need the free sites for the memory technique training too.

Signed

Student who still needs help

Doc
card cheat
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Sometimes I forget that this is a magicians' forum.

I just remembered, and it all makes perfect sense now.

Carry on, gentlemen.

CC
splice
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Yep, absolutely. Obviously Doc can't possibly know as much as someone named "card cheat", and is lying to us about memorizing cards.

We should all shut up and let you do all the talking. Or alternatively, you should leave us lames and hang out with real workers like you, maybe at ellusionist or penguin.
tommy
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The most amazing thing I ever seen with memory was thie kid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVqRT_kCOLI


There are many people who can not only play chess blind folded but play it to grand master standards. Can they do it while doing other complex tasks? I don't know but I wouldn't bet them that they couldn't. Remembering while doing everything else mentioned sounds hard to me but when we look at what can be done with memory technique and what some people can do I sure it be done. I personaly would just remember where the Aces were going to start with.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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I'm not saying that DOC knows less than I do.

I'm simply saying that I don't think that memorizing every player's hole cards while dealing them is practical, natural, or neccessary. I certainly don't remember ever hearing of anyone playing the light this way in a serious poker game.

Learning a memory system that will enable you to memorize X number of cards in Y seconds is great. But, we aren't talking about ribbon spreading a deck over a close-up mat and memorizing it's order in a given amount of time.

Regardless of the hanging party that is sent after me, I simply don't see any serious hustler playing a light this way. Sorry.

Yiannis, I was serious when I said I meant no offense.

CC
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