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splice
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I don't think Doc studied memory techniques for magic tricks, but what do I know.

Nothing to see here, move along.
card cheat
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And who said that DOC studied memory techniques to facilitate glim work?

Honestly, it doesn't matter. I'm pretty comfortable with what I have said, as are you.

Now, you have a nice day.

CC
h2o
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Just my 2c, but I think there's a big difference between quietly spreading all the cards to memorize them and being at the card table and trying to peek the cards in a natural way while dealing... By the way, who seriously needs to memorize a 52 cards deck? I know one guy who is able to tell you all the capitals of every country in the world. That's fine, he's able to get some extra points in some quizz games, but what's the point? I've never tried to use any kind of memory system but I'm able to easily memorize at least 4-5 cards, and sometimes that's more than enough...
tommy
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By the way, who seriously needs to memorize a 52 cards deck?

ďStu Ungar, who had a genius level IQ and an eidetic memory, was able to keep track of every card in a six-deck blackjack shoe. In 1977 he was bet $100,000 by Bob Stupak, an owner and designer of casinos, that he could not count down the last three decks in a six deck shoe. Ungar won the bet.Ē
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
MandyMarks
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DeepestDarkestEurope
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I had not heard this expression 'playing the light' before. It is very poetic.

I just wanted to say the women have an advantage in this area. Shiny gold or silver rings do not arouse as much suspicion on a woman. I will have to look at these memory systems. At the moment I only play blackjack and a hole card or two is enough to make for a pleasant evening.
tommy
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I have read of women painting glossy nail polish on their hand and playing light with that. Which sounds poetic and artistic but I think it is BS.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Yiannis
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Doc,

I'll PM you the info you want.

I've been using the Dominic system since 1999 and up until 3 months ago I could memorize the entire deck in just under a minute. With Pridmore's technique (which is really an upgrade to Dominic's technique) I can now do it, in a good day, in less than 40 seconds. To memorize 6 packs currently takes me about 7 - 8 minutes.

People who haven't used memory systems before, concentrate too hard to remember the order of the cards. With sufficient practice, the process of memorizing becomes automatic. You don't think about it, you don't pause while doing it and you can even talk while at it.

For gambling, either you memorize a stack from discards (which is very easy) or you read the marked deck while dealing or you play the light (having of course the proper technique). Specially for playing the light, just a slight glimse of the dealing card is all that is needed to memorize it. If you hit the "under one minute" mark in your practice, you'll see how this process is possible.

There's nothing magical about it, is not a special gift, just consistent training with the proper system.

CC,

no offense taken, just being playful. It's great to be in this forum and exchange all this wonderful information for free. I respect your opinion, and I'm just offering my point of view.
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2007-11-29 18:43, tommy wrote:
By the way, who seriously needs to memorize a 52 cards deck?

ďStu Ungar, who had a genius level IQ and an eidetic memory, was able to keep track of every card in a six-deck blackjack shoe. In 1977 he was bet $100,000 by Bob Stupak, an owner and designer of casinos, that he could not count down the last three decks in a six deck shoe. Ungar won the bet.Ē


And in a game like gin rummy, or blackjack, this ability can be a major asset.

In today's poker games, this would not be so valuable. Sure, knowing what is going to hit the board is a great edge (over the long run, it is unbeatable.) But, you don't need advanced mnemonics to accomplish this. You certainly can't do it with even the world's best shiner. There are several ways to do this that don't involve gaffs, and are actually quite simple.

Again, I can see how a shiner could really put the hurt on a bankroll or two. I just don't think that it's ever played out to the extent that some have implied or fantasized that it is.

Yiannis, that's what I like about you: you've got class. Thank you for not taking offense.

CC
card cheat
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Yiannis, that's what I like about you: you've got class. Thank you for not taking offense.

CC
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-11-29 16:49, splice wrote:
I don't think Doc studied memory techniques for magic tricks, but what do I know.

Quote:
On 2007-11-29 17:51, card cheat wrote:
And who said that DOC studied memory techniques to facilitate glim work?

Honestly, it doesn't matter.

CC


Who said? I said; and it does matter.

Splice thanks for defending me, Iím just glad Iím not Erdnase (dead) who canít speak for himself.

Card Cheat your lack of expertise is starting to show and you have me pegged as some kind of sucker. You really believe that I would learn memory techniques to do magic tricks with? For the record I learned it to cheat and to rob robbers like you with who think that only knowing a few cards is an advantage of which is only partially true; knowing all is way even better but if you really want to find out, just play me but due to the fact that weíre partners in crime that will not be necessary.

I'm not sure what you're getting at and it's not that important but what I would like to say is, and I'm not sure if I'm right. I was in the same position as you are, being able to see the cards in my ring but not able to remember them, this is why I mentioned adding the totals for Tonk and black jack because that was simple (knowing how many points a man has in his hand).

My losing problem came when playing Coon Can and Knock Rummy, this is a shorter version of Gin Rummy to those who donít know of these games that the blacks and Islander's play. I tried to use the total technique with these games but it didn't work because melds in your hand added up to nothing just like in Gin so I had to better my technique. So in my quest for help in this area I sought out Sal P. after re-meeting him again after about 15 years through Steve.

I went out to Sal's place and boy did he entertain my friend and I with his sleight of hand and memory techniques. After such a display of talent I begged for lessons of which he kindly helped me in. He also gave me a memory program that his nephew made for him to practice with (you will hear this in my footage). This is what started me to practicing.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3681369

While waiting for the Dominic System book to come back out I made up my own system of remembering cards, which I still haven't mastered completely. But why Doc? Because I cheat at these games using other techniques therefore making me too lazy to further my studies in the area but when I was making up my own system, Jason E. and Yiannis are the guys who came to my rescue pointing me in the right direction as Yiannis is doing now for you but you don't want to listen.

This is why I'm co-signing for him and confirming his statements about it as being true because I've already traveled that road that you won't go down. Please don't feel that everyone is on my side and we're teaming up against you because this is not true. Friends help friends and we are entitled to disagree with one another now and then in particular areas of our trade.

I told this forum that I wanted to be the best at what I did so I ventured down many paths to achieve this goal even though I have grown wearisome while in the process. Yes Iíve learned a lot and I have made many a mistakes while doing it and Iíll probably make many more in my travels but Iím still here holding on while trying to direct the less fortunate in the right direction so they can achieve the goal in which they seek. If only yaíll believe, search, study and then practice, only then will you become one of the elite.

Note: Many of you PM me asking me for answers and just expect me to give it to you and I wonít. Search, study, practice and make your mistakes and youíll learn what and what donít work. I just direct, show whatís possible and what exist; itís your duty to do the rest. This is nothing but ERDNASE LIVE AT THE MAGICE CAF…!

Okay So Kill Me

People get on me for posting footage of things when all Iím doing is visually showing my readers of my encounters with individuals who were experts in their fields, Many here think that Iím trying to prove that I have all the sense and no one else has any and this is not true; Iím only trying to help if yaíll will just listen and periodically read between the lines.

So here I go againÖ.

Card Cheat in this footage you will hear me asking my friend is it possible to deal cards at a speed where you can see them and remember them all at the same time while using the light. My friend says yes and then demonstrates that it can be done even though he doesnít play the light. One thing should be noted also in this footage, even though my friend used to, he no longer practice with the suits because itís not needed when playing black jack; so why practice something you will not ever use?

Note: Studentís you will see that we donít use everything that weíve ever learned. Why? Cheats ONLY PRACTICE what they need in order to get the money; everything else is just a waste of time and this is what yaíll are doing by trying to learn every deal, every muck, every stack, every hop and so on and so on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN9rjb_kErA

Card Cheat here is my program that I had made up by a guy who stole it from me after partially making it (He told me because he made it, it was his (my idea but it was his). This program was never finished.

http://plaza.ufl.edu/buchnerk/memory.swf

Here is the Link when I spoke about him stealing it.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3681688

Conclusion:

Card Cheat the technique exist and as you can see remembering single cards for poker can be done extremely fast just like State Street Eddie did when he used to hustle; youíre just lazy like I amÖ.oh, and as you can hear/see, I didnít learn mine for magical purposes.

Respectfully,

Doc

P.S. Yiannis thank you very much for your continued help in this area. Still your student...Doc
h2o
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That was a lengthy but interesting discussion. I really didn't know or imagined all those possibilities and so I never took the time to think and study about those memory techniques. I was just a sucker.
Thanks Yiannis and Doc for your great expertise and for taking your time to educate us. Respect for both of you.
Jeremy Brown
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Doc thankyou so much for sharing.

Jeremy
tommy
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Ann Pike

Memory Gambler

My daughter asks, "When was I born?
When did I get my first tooth?"
My eyes roll like windows
of a slot machine
spinning pictures
empty as beer bottles.

She waits again hoping
I'll hit the jackpot.

I pull the handle,
plug in two more quarters,
spin memory like one obsessed,
watch years roll, turn over and over,
years of cleaned ashtrays,
Michelob cans restacked in cases,
an empty bed unmade --
behind it bent coils of tabs
her father hammered
into lattice curtains.

She wants me to reclaim each tooth
like three lucky cherries.
Through the narrow slits all
I see is him him him
his body in the recliner
an open mouth--
a rusted out machine.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Unknown419
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Tommy you know that you really have too much time on your hands...nice post about the most amazing thing you ever saw. It was the most amazing thing I ever saw too.

Take Care

Doc
tommy
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Smile If you have 47 minutes.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6378985927858479238

By the way Doc thanks for sharing. I sometimes forget to say thanks. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
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Seems to me after watching that that one could remenber cards like telephone numbers if you forget about the suits and see tens and court cards as 0. I just tried that and I can recall 14 cards easy doing that. Like recalling two 7 digit telephone numbers.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card cheat
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We worked a scam once that involved memorizing a slug of cards and we treated it like a license plate number from a car.

CC
card cheat
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DOC,

For the record, I never said that you learned any memory techniques for magic tricks. I simply said that I don't think that using a glim to clock every card dealt to every other person at the table is practical at all. Go back and read my posts again, if you need to.

You can come on here and write a post of any length, saying whatever you want about me and my "lack of expertise." At the end of the day, you have NO idea who I am and what I know or what I don't. I still get money, my friend.

And, at the end of the day, I STILL don't believe that good men play a shiner like that.

Tell me, DOC: do you use a glim to track EVERY card that you deal to the players? Is that how you, a left-handed dealer, play the light?

Do you REALLY think that this is how it's done by the good guys?

Tell you what...

You seem to like making video clips, and everyone else seems to like watching them. So, here is my suggestion:

Film yourself washing, shuffling up, and cutting a deck. Then deal them to (i'll go easy on you) seven players, all the while peeking every card, keeping track of their postions and assimilating this info.

Then, deal the flop and tell us which hand hit the board and what exactly they hit before you turn over the cards. At this time, you can really dazzle us all by telling us what the other six players have in the pocket, as well.

We'll be looking for natural dealing style and accuracy in your memorization of the cards that you glimpsed with your shiner. Oh, and on that note, you can also show us the shiner that you used to make your reads.

You backed me into a corner here, DOC. I'm sorry to call you out. If you can prove me wrong, I'll be a man and admit that I was wrong. Will you do the same?

As far as the video clip that you showed of the memory technique being demonstrated on the BJ table goes....

I find it really impressive that anyone could flip cards over on a table so rapidly, look at them for such a short period of time, box them up, and recite their order from memory. That was a really cool demo.

Unfortunately, it has little to do with our micro-contraversy here, as the demonstrator in that video didn't use a shiner, wasn't in live gameplay, and wasn't peeking the cards while they were being dealt to players that were watching him deal the cards at a normal speed and tempo.

See, this whole time, I haven't been arguing that mnemonics could be applied to card cheating. As I said before, I have worked scams that involved memory applications. To be honest, mnemonics were being used to take down casino table games long before this forum even existed.

What I HAVE been saying (again, reread my previous entries) this whole time, is that it is not practical to use a shiner to peek each and every card dealt to each and every player and to then keep track of all of those different cards. For many reasons, most of which I have already mentioned, it just isn't practical. My stance on the issue is that there are better ways to use a shiner. To me, reading every card while dealing (and appearing as though you aren't doing so), and keeping track of ALL of that information in a game seems like something out of a movie.

I mean no disrespect to you, but don't make me out to be some sucker that doesn't know what he's talking about. I've earned what I know, and never claimed to know more than I do. Don't think for one second, that just because you have a fan club, that I won't call you out. Fair is fair.

CC
tommy
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I can do it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card cheat
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Then let us see.

CC
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