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tommy
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I think I sense a bet comming or are you just talking.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card cheat
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I don't have to bet you anything.

You stood up in front of many and said that you could do this.

Man-up.

CC
tommy
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Well if you don't want to bet...

I would have cheated anyway.



I own a deck of marked cards.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Yiannis
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CC,

people's reputation speak for themselves. Those who have been here long enough, know who Doc and Tommy are, what their experience is and why they don't have to prove themselves.

Doc has a great deal of admirers in this forum, because he is an original character and proven to be one of the best in his field. Backed up by the internationaly best in gambling and casino consulting. Further more, his essays, videos and stories are gold mines of information that you can't find anywhere else. It's very easy to see why such an individual is highly praised and sought after.

As far as how a shiner can be used, this is something that people have to decide for themselves. And find out like Doc had, the hard way, which way is the best for them. But you can save yourself a lot of grief if you can learn through someone else's mistakes, especialy someone with a working knowledge.

You believe that the high speed method of memorizing cards using the method that Doc's advocates is impractical. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with you. I believe that it's only impractical to those that don't have experience with advanced memory systems. And of course to those who don't want to invest the amount of time to master such system. To give you an idea how hard the advanced systems are, you have to memorize before hand 2704 images and be able to recall them instantly. The amount of time spent is like trying to learn any other difficult gambling sleight, like the hop or the greek deal.

Tommy,

you hustler! Smile
Ron Conley
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Check this link CC some of these folk may have abilities you don't understand.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314681,00.html
Ron Conley
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You will have to cut and past the link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314681,00.html
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2007-12-04 19:55, Yiannis wrote:
You believe that the high speed method of memorizing cards using the method that Doc's advocates is impractical.


No... let's try this again:

I NEVER said that those memory techniques are impractical. I said that using a shiner to peg each and every player's cards is impractical. It's the shiner that ruins it for me, not the memory techniques. This thread was started on the topic of shiners, not memory techniques. I don't get what it is that you aren't understanding about that.

Tommy,

I knew from the get go that you would have cheated.

Doesn't surprise me, but thanks for being honest about your dishonesty.

Mr. Conley,

Again, I know that incredible feats of memory are possible. I also know that they can be quite useful in gaming applications when it comes to cheating (and square play.)

But, with all due respect, that article didn't mention using a shiner. Therefore, again with all due respect, I don't see how that can be expected to alter my opinion. I do appreciate your involvement in the thread and your contribution to it, as well. Interesting article...

CC
Yiannis
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CC,

I do understand what you are saying about the shiner. What I don't understand about your statement is, why do you consider this way as impractical. Is it impractical because it's difficult to play the light this way? Or is it impractical application wise?

Doc's shiner technique AND a working memory system, I believe is a very practical system which beats every other gambling sleight and stratagem around (with the exception of a cooler).

And for the record, I write my opinion only for argument's shake, offering a different angle. Changing other people's opinion is what is impractical in my point of view.
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-12-04 17:16, card cheat wrote:
DOC,

For the record, I never said that you learned any memory techniques for magic tricks. I simply said that I don't think that using a glim to clock every card dealt to every other person at the table is practical at all. Go back and read my posts again, if you need to.


Quote:
On 2007-11-29 16:49, splice wrote:
I don't think Doc studied memory techniques for magic tricks, but what do I know.

Quote:
On 2007-11-29 17:51, card cheat wrote:
And who said that DOC studied memory techniques to facilitate glim work?

Honestly, it doesn't matter.

CC


I went back and read your post and it sounds clear to me that you said it. Question…now if I didn’t study memory techniques to facilitate glim work and you heard this in my video footage, than what did I study it for?

Quote:
You can come on here and write a post of any length, saying whatever you want about me and my "lack of expertise."


Every person’s knowledge is limited to a certain degree about certain things and yours is no exception. The feat is possible even if neither you nor I can do it as Yiannis explained.

Quote:
At the end of the day, you have NO idea who I am and what I know or what I don't. I still get money, my friend.


There is no argument or disagreement here.

Quote:
And, at the end of the day, I STILL don't believe that good men play a shiner like that.


Because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean that it’s not possible.

Quote:
Tell me, DOC: do you use a glim to track EVERY card that you deal to the players?


No. Why? I don’t play Texas Hold ‘em. Why? Even though I know how to play the game, if I can’t cheat I don’t play. Have you ever cheated in a Texas Hold ‘em game? Yes, but the rules were slightly different. I played Hold ‘em where the deal walks and I played in a game where there was a stationary dealer but the players at anytime can cut the deck.

Quote:
Is that how you, a left-handed dealer, play the light?


Yes I would. I’m currently going back to studying my memory technique because of what information Yiannis just sent me. It simplified my memory technique and I will be using it in the near future.

Quote:
Do you REALLY think that this is how it's done by the good guys?


To be honest with you, no, but the Doc is not ordinary, I’m an exception to the rule. I’m a card cheat genius and I invent my own stuff and that’s why I was good before I met the best of the best and so was Allen Kennedy who re-invented the middle deal, so was Dad Steven’s who mastered the Steven’s Cull, so was State Street Eddie who mastered the glimmer, and so was Steve F. who mastered shuffling techniques and so is Al Halcon who re-invented the Greek Deal. To hell with the good guys., I’m not saying that they are not good at what they do but there’s only one Michael Jordan, one Muhammad Ali, one Tiger Woods, one Evel Knievel and only one Frank Lucas. Even though the good guys did it, it wasn’t done like these guys did it.

Quote:
Tell you what...

You seem to like making video clips, and everyone else seems to like watching them. So, here is my suggestion:


I don’t like making video clips. Why? Because I’m too lazy to make them and it’s too much work setting the stuff up then connecting it to my computer sending it to iMovie then editing and saving it then uploading it to YouTube with a dial-up modem from my cell phone.

Quote:
Film yourself washing, shuffling up, and cutting a deck. Then deal them to (I’ll go easy on you) seven players, all the while peeking every card, keeping track of their positions and assimilating this info.

Then, deal the flop and tell us which hand hit the board and what exactly they hit before you turn over the cards. At this time, you can really dazzle us all by telling us what the other six players have in the pocket, as well.

We'll be looking for natural dealing style and accuracy in your memorization of the cards that you glimpsed with your shiner. Oh, and on that note, you can also show us the shiner that you used to make your reads.


Doc don’t do that and if you come into my world you would see why not. Cheats do not practice what they don’t need; do you remember these words that I mentioned not too long ago? In my world we brew the cards, use the over hand shuffle, the Hindu shuffle and the in the hands riffle shuffle; if we do the table shuffle we would look like an experienced dealer and this is a no, no and this is why I don’t practice it.

Note: I cheat in Texas Hold’em games where the deal walks (each player deals) and when you can cut on a stationary dealer to protect your money. I play according to the environment I’m in and when I cold deck I can tell you exactly what every player has in their hand and what will hit the board because I peeked what they was going to get when I set up the deck in the bathroom and the deal won’t only look natural but it will be natural because I won’t be dealing.

Quote:
DOC. I'm sorry to call you out. If you can prove me wrong, I'll be a man and admit that I was wrong. Will you do the same?


Of course but it looks as though you’ve already backed me into the corner on this one only because I’ve already admitted in a number of threads and post that I don’t play Texas Hold ‘em because I can’t cheat in that game.

Readers it should be noted that hustlers/suckers has always made it easy for them to cheat the card players. Why? What card games have you ever played for money besides Texas Hold ‘em where you can’t cut the cards to prevent yourself from being cheated? None.

Them casinos/suckers got a hold of some dealers who could riffle stack but couldn’t do a decent enough hop to get the deck back in order so what did they do? They make up a rule telling the players that they can’t cut the deck because it takes up too much time from the deal….bullsh*t, They let you cut the deck in black jack so why not poker? because different games require different cheating techniques and if everyone continues to cut the deck, the dealer won’t be able to cheat the players and the house won’t make extra money.

Let me make a movie like the movie “Shade” and show the world why they should cut the deck (so that I can cold deck) and the casino world will have to change their policy on this !@#$%^&*.”

Quote:
What I HAVE been saying (again, reread my previous entries) this whole time, is that it is not practical to use a shiner to peek each and every card dealt to each and every player and to then keep track of all of those different cards. For many reasons, most of which I have already mentioned, it just isn't practical. My stance on the issue is that there are better ways to use a shiner. To me, reading every card while dealing (and appearing as though you aren't doing so), and keeping track of ALL of that information in a game seems like something out of a movie.


Card Cheat I agree with you but then again I don’t. Why? Since you are dealing with your world I can understand what you’re talking about because as I read what you wrote, you are only talking about Texas Hold’em where it is logical but realistically not. Why would I need all of this information if I were dealing? I wouldn’t and this is why I agree with you but I don’t agree with you especially if I was playing Gin, Coon Can, Knock Rummy, Pitch, or Tonk head up.

Quote:
I mean no disrespect to you, but don't make me out to be some sucker that doesn't know what he's talking about. I've earned what I know, and never claimed to know more than I do. Don't think for one second, that just because you have a fan club, that I won't call you out. Fair is fair.


I mean no disrespect to you either but because you don’t know of an existence of something doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist or that it never existed.

Quote:
Fay’s Gambling Methods

After having carefully studied the various methods published for “dealing seconds,” “Peeking the glimmer,” and “sleeving cards,” and having watched a host of so-called experts among the conjuring fraternity attempt them, we make this statement without prejudice. We have yet to see anyone other than Eddie Fay perform these sleights undetectably, or in a manner that would pass unobserved, that is, without undue movement of the hands to confuse or cover some defect therein.

Furthermore, we sincerely doubt if there has ever been published before a description of the proper use of the “glimmer: and method for sleeving cards that, if truthfully and implicitly followed in the most expert manner, could ever be performed undetectably; but of course that is only our opinion, and we do not question your right to disagree with us.

Mr. Fay was not a magician, he had no desire to be one, and in fact could care less for card tricks,. Thus, he did not think like a magician and only used cards as a means to acquire money.

It was back during our university days in Denver when we first met this sharper. He had been a professional gambler, traveling the Western circuits for many years. During the course of his travels he had acquired the nickname of “State Street Eddie.” We became close friends and brought him to Chicago to “demonstrate: for the boys. Mr. Eddie Fields to the contrary, it was the author who arranged a secret meeting between Fay, Marlo, and Fields. After watching Fay perform with the pasteboards in our hotel room, both Fields and Marlo begged for lessons, as a result they paid dearly for private coaching.

At one private session, Paul LePaul watched “State Street” work for a full two hours, then he turned to us and said, “I have no idea how he does it –real miracles.” The always suspicious Rufus Steele looked up and shook his head, saying, “unbelievable, Paul incredible.”

The methods described below are those actually used by Fay, and are described exactly as he performed them…You will have weapons so excellent that you will rate as a master among the less initiated, even though you may possess the ability to do little less.

However, let us warn you that there is no easy road to Utopia. These methods are difficult to learn, very difficult in fact, but if you practice for at least sixty-five hours, in half-hour sessions, you will graduate into a class you have only dreamed about.

Peek And Deal: This perfect piece of deception leaves nothing to be desired. It is the most practical and best of all handlings for the “Glimmer” or “Peek Mirror.” The applications for its use are unlimited. The glimmer is usually practiced by the sharper who specialized in playing a single opponent stud poker because its use gives him knowledge of the opponent’s hole card. “State Street” Eddie however, was so proficient in the use of the glimmer that he could deal out five hands of draw poker, remember every card dealt out (as it flashed in the mirror) and after the draw, knew every card in the other players’ hands.

Magical Calculation: Requiring something extra-special and different for a demonstration before a large gathering of the magical fraternity, Eddie came up with an excellent exhibition of rapid-fire calculation, which never failed to astonish and mystify all those present. Upon receiving back a pack of cards which had been freely and thoroughly shuffled, Eddie would deal out in the regulation manner two hands of cards, dealing until the cards had been completely dealt out, twenty-six to his opponent and twenty-six to himself. Immediately, having dealt out all the cards, Fay would announce, “Ladies and Gentlemen, you have handed me a well shuffled pack of cards. I IMMEDIATELY DEALT OUT, the cards into two hands of twenty-six cards similar to a game of Rummy. Not only did I secretly glimpse or peek at every card dealt, but I also made use of my photographic memory. Then, in a split second, by my ability to function not unlike a rapid calculator or a highly transistorized computer, I have totaled the value of all the cards in my opponent’s hand. You, sir, have a total of 197 points in your hand. Please turn the cards face-up and verify that by counting and totaling your cards aloud.”

As the opponent would attempt to verify this by totaling up the value of the cards, the fun would begin. His opponent would always make a mistake or two, and it took him four or five times longer to total his cards then it took “State Street” to give the total – and remember, he never saw the faces of the cards!

Naturally, this required the dexterity and ability to glimpse and total the opponent’s cards as he dealt out the cards for a two handed game. Fay was so skilled in this deviltry that he seldom, if ever, was more than one or two points off.

During the whole procedure of the “Peek and Deal: DO NOT LOOK AT THE PACK. This is one of the essentials of the real secret. At times, Fay would deal with one hand only, and get his glimpse as the card was thumbed off onto the table.

This piece of card manipulation was a masterpiece in Fay’s hands, and he often told us that of those to whom he taught it, ONLY ED MARLO EVER PERFECTED IT. As previously stated, it has many applications and should be deftly acquired by all card experts. To our knowledge nothing like it has ever been printed.


Card Cheat if this story is not true and I believe that it is, then the magicians have lied to me again and sent me on a wild goose chase but I believe this story because it rings true and I have seen that it could be possible only if one practice this technique to the level that’s described above; if and when that day do comes along only then will I posses the goose that lays the golden eggs.


Notes on Stacking

Worst

To me stacking gets the money but it is an inferior technique and it can rank you. Why? For a number of reasons, first thing you have to do before you stack and deal is…11 perfect moves in front of players watching you.

1. Pick up a deck (1 move)
2. Look through the deck (1 move) and take out 3 cards (3 moves)
3. Place the 3 cards on the top or bottom of the deck (1 move)
4. Riffle stack the 3 cards into the position you want them. (3 moves)
5. Make a brief, crimp or hop the deck (1 move)
6. Deal the cards (1 move)

An Alternative Using Your Memory

Better

Glance through deck while picking it up noting positions of 3 fours at position 2, 9 and 17. False shuffle the deck retaining the order and deal seconds for a 4 handed game. This technique eliminates people from watching you take 3 cards and placing them on the top of the deck. It goes like this…

R = regular deal
S = second deal

R, 2ND, 2ND, (= 4) R,R,R,(2ND= 4) R,R,R,R ,R,R,R, (2ND= 4)

You should have 3 fours in front of you.

Cold Decking

Nothing Better

To me this is the best. Why? You go to the rest room, lock the door and set up the deck so that the major big money players lose while making sure that no one sees you. When you come out of the bathroom wait until the guy/lady next to you get ready to deal and cold deck him. (1 move gets all the money and you didn’t deal)

Less is always better when you’re cheating.


Respectfully,

Doc Holiday
Ron Conley
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I put that link up for amusement, yes it's funny that chimps did better than the humans. I was not trying to make a case for using the light to memorize every card in a casino game. Sorry if anyone took it any other way.

The light is one of the great pass the deck moves, heads up poker short cards like gin etc. The value decreases as the game gets more players but still has value. The light has always been a great move for beating half smarts who are looking for some kind of slight of hand. Take the man who is leery of being cheated, so he brings his own cards, shuffles behind you every time and randomly counts down the deck. If he doesn't know the light you own him, I got beat with the light twice when I was a kid and that's after I thought I knew it. However my two friends street sense and card sense saved me from getting broke.

As for the casino or formal center dealer game it's one of the few moves that's not nullified by the shuffling machines. Once again the strongest value will be in the short handed high limit games, probably nailing only one or two hands. First base will be the easiest position to peek because of the natural change in tempo when the deck is swinging to the other side of the table.

As for memorizing all the cards in a full game, I would need to see it to believe it. I clocked dealing speed last week in a nine-handed Holdem game they were getting two to three cards per second out, even the worlds record of 52 cards in a little over 26 seconds comes up a little short of the slower dealers. Let factor in a couple things say three of the players are agents for the dealer and you deal a little slow this would give you 18 seconds to memorize 12 cards, sounds possible.

But the real problem comes back to playing the light at that speed. Their is a way to play the light at that speed but it won't work in a casino where you have people right next to you and behind you plus the overhead pan and tilt cameras that can zoom right in on your hand. Their is a huge speed difference nailing one hand vs. the whole table with the type of light that can be played in a casino plus your going to have to burn the deck the entire time your pitching the cards.

I respect all the opinions that have been posted on this rather interesting thread and hope others will respect mine. If you know in your heart that I'm wrong that's OK. But if I made you think it through then that's a good thing.
Yiannis
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Quote:
Fay’s Gambling Methods

However, let us warn you that there is no easy road to Utopia. These methods are difficult to learn, very difficult in fact, but if you practice for at least sixty-five hours, in half-hour sessions, you will graduate into a class you have only dreamed about.

Peek And Deal: This perfect piece of deception leaves nothing to be desired. It is the most practical and best of all handlings for the “Glimmer” or “Peek Mirror.” The applications for its use are unlimited. The glimmer is usually practiced by the sharper who specialized in playing a single opponent stud poker because its use gives him knowledge of the opponent’s hole card. “State Street” Eddie however, was so proficient in the use of the glimmer that he could deal out five hands of draw poker, remember every card dealt out (as it flashed in the mirror) and after the draw, knew every card in the other players’ hands.


Exactly! Spot on Doc.

Mr Conley,
you are right that the casino conditions make this technique difficult if not impossible. My references to cheating using the light and memory work were made regarding private games only.
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 03:42, Yiannis wrote:
What I don't understand about your statement is, why do you consider this way as impractical. Is it impractical because it's difficult to play the light this way? Or is it impractical application wise?


Yiannis,

I'm not sure I understand what it is that you are asking. Perhaps you could restate your questions?

CC
tommy
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Recalling the cards that you have peeked is the least of your worries when playing the light. First and foremost one must be able to play the light without arousing suspicion. If you get caught playing the light that is something you will not forget without any aid of memory technique. Every card you peek is a move and with every peek the chances of being nailed increases. On that basis, and not on the basis of personal experience, I am inclined to say I would not use it to peek every card. If I did use it at all I would use it as CC as suggested for poker.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 13:28, tommy wrote:
Every card you peek is a move and with every peek the chances of being nailed increases.


Once again genius shines through. (no pun intended) What the couple hundred folks that read on this forum just can't seem to understand.

You Do Not Move on an Entire Game. Period.

In a fast game a pro may move once, twice or not at all if the cards come right. They minimize risk and maximize gain, always avoiding moving on the big pot, a clear newby give away. Naturally they still play for the pot if they can.

A Dairyman doesn't milk till the cow bleeds. He takes what they have to give and they go away happy, coming back to the miking parlor without being called. Think on that.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
KingStardog
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
(1 move gets all the money and you didn’t deal)

Less is always better when you’re cheating.


Respectfully,

Doc Holiday


More genius.

Folks need to stop reading and start reading between the lines. Gems are always taken from mere dirt.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
KingStardog
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One more bit before I'm done. When Ron is talking about the new PTZ cameras/systems you better pay attention. He knows what he is taking about and needs to be given his due.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
splice
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 14:10, KingStardog wrote:

Folks need to stop reading and start reading between the lines.


I think that's been said enough by now that those who already know don't need to be told and those that don't won't ever learn.
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 13:28, tommy wrote:
Recalling the cards that you have peeked is the least of your worries when playing the light. First and foremost one must be able to play the light without arousing suspicion. If you get caught playing the light that is something you will not forget without any aid of memory technique. Every card you peek is a move and with every peek the chances of being nailed increases. On that basis, and not on the basis of personal experience, I am inclined to say I would not use it to peek every card. If I did use it at all I would use it as CC as suggested for poker.


Tommy Card Cheat's logic is correct in all aspects as is yours but there are exceptions to the rule, this is why I would only play head up for the same reason that ya'll just mentioned because it's natural for you to look down while you're dealing in a heads up game but as Mr. Conley stated not constantly at your hands as in a poker game setting because you would be burning the deck; When dealing around, the punch technique is my preferred choice.

Take Care

Doc
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Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
I went back and read your post and it sounds clear to me that you said it. Question…now if I didn’t study memory techniques to facilitate glim work and you heard this in my video footage, than what did I study it for?


There are many ways, aside from glim-work, that memory techniques can be applied to cheating at cardplay.

The FACT here is that I never said that you studied memory techniques for magic.

Think about it for a second. I don't believe that even the most advanced memory techniques can iron out the kinks in shiner play. Therefore, it is natural for me to assume that you took time to learn these memory techniques and mnemonics for other scams.

These memory techniques would be much more valuable to you if you would put your shiner away and learn some shuffle work.

If you're playing in a game that's "cheat proof", either learn to beat that game or go find a new one.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
The feat is possible even if neither you nor I can do it as Yiannis explained.


On that note, it is possible for a cow to sprout wings, breathe fire and take out Tokyo. But, I will call that impossible until I see it done.

Learning memory techniques and being able to accomplish astounding things with them is possible; it's also been occuring for quite some time now. THAT is possible.

But, like our fire-breathing airborne cow scenario , I will believe this whole miracle-glim fairytale when I see it. And, as in the case of our fire-breathing airborne cow, I won't be holding my breath.

Nobody should.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean that it’s not possible.


Well, in a matter of speaking, you're on to something there.

But, I believe that I HAVE NOT seen it for a reason.

Does it seem more logical to you, in this case, to believe that we HAVEN'T seen it because it IS possible, or that we HAVEN'T seen it because it just ain't done like that?

Quote:
Tell me, DOC: do you use a glim to track EVERY card that you deal to the players?


Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
No. Why? I don’t play Texas Hold ‘em. Why? Even though I know how to play the game, if I can’t cheat I don’t play. Have you ever cheated in a Texas Hold ‘em game? Yes, but the rules were slightly different. I played Hold ‘em where the deal walks and I played in a game where there was a stationary dealer but the players at anytime can cut the deck.


Um, excuse me, but if you can deal the cards then you can use a shiner. So, I don't see how the excuse you make above really applies. A little help?

And, come to think of it, there's something that I REALLY need your help understanding:

You say that you won't play Hold 'em if you can't cheat, and that you can't cheat because there is a house dealer and any player can cut the cards at any time.

If you can cut the deck at any time, why not just ring in a cooler?

So... if you can deal you can cheat with a shiner. If you can't deal you can cheat with a cooler.

But, if you can't cheat you don't play.

Am I the only one puzzled by this?

Quote:
Is that how you, a left-handed dealer, play the light?


Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Yes I would. I’m currently going back to studying my memory technique because of what information Yiannis just sent me. It simplified my memory technique and I will be using it in the near future.


So, you do or don't play the light?

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
To be honest with you, no, but the Doc is not ordinary, I’m an exception to the rule. I’m a card cheat genius and I invent my own stuff and that’s why I was good before I met the best of the best and so was Allen Kennedy who re-invented the middle deal, so was Dad Steven’s who mastered the Steven’s Cull, so was State Street Eddie who mastered the glimmer, and so was Steve F. who mastered shuffling techniques and so is Al Halcon who re-invented the Greek Deal. To hell with the good guys., I’m not saying that they are not good at what they do but there’s only one Michael Jordan, one Muhammad Ali, one Tiger Woods, one Evel Knievel and only one Frank Lucas. Even though the good guys did it, it wasn’t done like these guys did it.


Wow.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
I don’t like making video clips. Why? Because I’m too lazy to make them and it’s too much work setting the stuff up then connecting it to my computer sending it to iMovie then editing and saving it then uploading it to YouTube with a dial-up modem from my cell phone.


I don't buy it.

You post epic length writings and video clips all the time. All of the sudden it's a pain for you to do so?


Quote:
Film yourself washing, shuffling up, and cutting a deck. Then deal them to (I’ll go easy on you) seven players, all the while peeking every card, keeping track of their positions and assimilating this info.

Then, deal the flop and tell us which hand hit the board and what exactly they hit before you turn over the cards. At this time, you can really dazzle us all by telling us what the other six players have in the pocket, as well.

We'll be looking for natural dealing style and accuracy in your memorization of the cards that you glimpsed with your shiner. Oh, and on that note, you can also show us the shiner that you used to make your reads.


Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Doc don’t do that and if you come into my world you would see why not. Cheats do not practice what they don’t need; do you remember these words that I mentioned not too long ago? In my world we brew the cards, use the over hand shuffle, the Hindu shuffle and the in the hands riffle shuffle; if we do the table shuffle we would look like an experienced dealer and this is a no, no and this is why I don’t practice it.


Hmmm....

First of all, I didn't stipulate what kind of shuffle you had to use.

Second of all, what type of shuffle you use, or don't, has nothing to do with glim work.

As far as "coming into your world goes", I've hustled in NYC.

So... why can't you make that video?

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Note: I cheat in Texas Hold’em games where the deal walks (each player deals) and when you can cut on a stationary dealer to protect your money. I play according to the environment I’m in and when I cold deck I can tell you exactly what every player has in their hand and what will hit the board because I peeked what they was going to get when I set up the deck in the bathroom and the deal won’t only look natural but it will be natural because I won’t be dealing.


Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
No. Why? I don’t play Texas Hold ‘em.


Let's take a look at that again, shall we?

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Note: I cheat in Texas Hold’em games where the deal walks (each player deals) and when you can cut on a stationary dealer to protect your money.


Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
No. Why? I don’t play Texas Hold ‘em.


Do you have a split personality or something? Because you say that you do play, and work, Hold 'em. Then you say that you don't work Hold 'em. Kind of like:

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Of course but it looks as though you’ve already backed me into the corner on this one only because I’ve already admitted in a number of threads and post that I don’t play Texas Hold ‘em because I can’t cheat in that game.


And, for your information, that game is beatable from many different angles, my friend. How can you be a "card cheat genius" and not be able to work this type poker game?

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Them casinos/suckers got a hold of some dealers who could riffle stack but couldn’t do a decent enough hop to get the deck back in order so what did they do? They make up a rule telling the players that they can’t cut the deck because it takes up too much time from the deal….bullsh*t, They let you cut the deck in black jack so why not poker? because different games require different cheating techniques and if everyone continues to cut the deck, the dealer won’t be able to cheat the players and the house won’t make extra money.


I think someone else's "lack of expertise" is starting to show.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Let me make a movie like the movie “Shade” and show the world why they should cut the deck (so that I can cold deck) and the casino world will have to change their policy on this !@#$%^&*.”


Oh, brother.

In a casino poker room, even IF they allowed the fat slobs at the tables to put their grubby little hands on the deck to cut it, it would be a one handed cut on the table, directly onto a cut card. Perhaps you could show me a cooler move that could beat that? Oh, wait... you don't like making videos. How could I forget?

I like your deck switches, but they aren't useful in all situations.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Card Cheat I agree with you but then again I don’t. Why? Since you are dealing with your world I can understand what you’re talking about because as I read what you wrote, you are only talking about Texas Hold’em where it is logical but realistically not. Why would I need all of this information if I were dealing? I wouldn’t and this is why I agree with you but I don’t agree with you especially if I was playing Gin, Coon Can, Knock Rummy, Pitch, or Tonk head up.


There you go again, assuming that you know anything about me and "my world."

You don't.

And in a heads up game, a shiner can do some damage to say the least. However, your memory techniques could be better and more stealthily suited to accomplish much more devastating results and the best part is that there is no gaff, and no burning the light as you deal.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
I mean no disrespect to you either but because you don’t know of an existence of something doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist or that it never existed.


There goes that fire-breathing, winged cow again. Watch out for it.

Quote:
Fay’s Gambling Methods

After having carefully studied the various methods published for “dealing seconds,” “Peeking the glimmer,” and “sleeving cards,” and having watched a host of so-called experts among the conjuring fraternity attempt them, we make this statement without prejudice. We have yet to see anyone other than Eddie Fay perform these sleights undetectably, or in a manner that would pass unobserved, that is, without undue movement of the hands to confuse or cover some defect therein.

Furthermore, we sincerely doubt if there has ever been published before a description of the proper use of the “glimmer: and method for sleeving cards that, if truthfully and implicitly followed in the most expert manner, could ever be performed undetectably; but of course that is only our opinion, and we do not question your right to disagree with us.

Mr. Fay was not a magician, he had no desire to be one, and in fact could care less for card tricks,. Thus, he did not think like a magician and only used cards as a means to acquire money.

It was back during our university days in Denver when we first met this sharper. He had been a professional gambler, traveling the Western circuits for many years. During the course of his travels he had acquired the nickname of “State Street Eddie.” We became close friends and brought him to Chicago to “demonstrate: for the boys. Mr. Eddie Fields to the contrary, it was the author who arranged a secret meeting between Fay, Marlo, and Fields. After watching Fay perform with the pasteboards in our hotel room, both Fields and Marlo begged for lessons, as a result they paid dearly for private coaching.

At one private session, Paul LePaul watched “State Street” work for a full two hours, then he turned to us and said, “I have no idea how he does it –real miracles.” The always suspicious Rufus Steele looked up and shook his head, saying, “unbelievable, Paul incredible.”

The methods described below are those actually used by Fay, and are described exactly as he performed them…You will have weapons so excellent that you will rate as a master among the less initiated, even though you may possess the ability to do little less.

However, let us warn you that there is no easy road to Utopia. These methods are difficult to learn, very difficult in fact, but if you practice for at least sixty-five hours, in half-hour sessions, you will graduate into a class you have only dreamed about.

Peek And Deal: This perfect piece of deception leaves nothing to be desired. It is the most practical and best of all handlings for the “Glimmer” or “Peek Mirror.” The applications for its use are unlimited. The glimmer is usually practiced by the sharper who specialized in playing a single opponent stud poker because its use gives him knowledge of the opponent’s hole card. “State Street” Eddie however, was so proficient in the use of the glimmer that he could deal out five hands of draw poker, remember every card dealt out (as it flashed in the mirror) and after the draw, knew every card in the other players’ hands.


Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Card Cheat if this story is not true and I believe that it is, then the magicians have lied to me again and sent me on a wild goose chase but I believe this story because it rings true and I have seen that it could be possible only if one practice this technique to the level that’s described above; if and when that day do comes along only then will I posses the goose that lays the golden eggs.


Just like a goose that lays golden eggs, this tale of glim work is a fantasy. Magicians telling tall tales? Nah...

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
To me stacking gets the money but it is an inferior technique and it can rank you. Why? For a number of reasons, first thing you have to do before you stack and deal is…11 perfect moves in front of players watching you.

1. Pick up a deck (1 move)
2. Look through the deck (1 move) and take out 3 cards (3 moves)
3. Place the 3 cards on the top or bottom of the deck (1 move)
4. Riffle stack the 3 cards into the position you want them. (3 moves)
5. Make a brief, crimp or hop the deck (1 move)
6. Deal the cards (1 move)


That's not how it's done, DOC. I think that you should stick to what you know.

I used to deal twos when I was getting started. Lately, stacking is all I do. There are so many different ways to work over a game with a riffle shuffle that I don't even know where to start. This goes for the mechanic who is playing alone and who has a partner or two.

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 04:35, Unknown419 wrote:
Glance through deck while picking it up noting positions of 3 fours at position 2, 9 and 17. False shuffle the deck retaining the order and deal seconds for a 4 handed game. This technique eliminates people from watching you take 3 cards and placing them on the top of the deck. It goes like this…


That still involves (to put this into your terms):

Picking up the deck (1 move)
Looking through the deck (1 move) - and seventeen cards down at that.
Counting the cards while looking through the deck (1 move)
False shuffling (3 moves if you shuffle three times)
False cut or hop the deck (1 move)
Deal twos (and according to your scenario that would be 4 moves)

That's 11 moves! And after all that work you got trip 4's. What a monster hand!

CC
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