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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
Hi, who would you say has the best push through shuffle that you have ever seen? I am referring to shuffles that would be used in a game. We all know steve forte has awesome shuffles, but all the ones I have seen him do, also tell me that he is incredibly skilled with cards. Same question regarding the zarrow.
Kim |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Jimmy "Cards" Molinari perhaps.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
Hi tommy, thanks for replying. You know if there is a clip of him performing the shuffles somewhere?
Kim |
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Kim,
The best push through I have seen is Steve Forte's in Vol 1 of GPS under the full deck control. Regards, Paul H |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
Paul, but as I already said. You know immediately that he is extremely skilled. if a player shuffled like that I would leave right away. That is not good for a cheat
Kim |
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h2o Veteran user 305 Posts |
The push through shuffle is usually not good for a cheat.
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Clock Elite user Los Angeles, CA 460 Posts |
I learned my push through from the Vernon DVD, the Forte tape, and Erdnase...then adapting and practicing. I have come up with a couple of variations on m own.
The push through by nature is fast. It is rarely used at the card table, but for magic and gambling demonstrations it's great. On the veron tape it's done slower than Steve, and has a classic variation to it (starting with a genuine cut). I've seen you do it, and it looked good. |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
I use the push-through, and the pull-out. If I was going to hustle, and needed to maintain either a full deck or large slug, I would use a zarrow.
No question.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-11-22 16:03, MagicKim wrote: Maybe in some game with a bunch of rubes at the elks club that'd be true. However when you're talking about casino and card room poker in Vegas, California, and other jurisdictions, or even the big money private games that use the center-dealer format, that isn't the case. As a friend of mine likes to say, "They expect the dealer to know how to shuffle."
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Sorry Kim I haven’t I can only see a clip of Jimmy's wild overhand shuffle at his site.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
I have talked to cheats who use the push through at least. Ben, what method of the zarrow would you use in that case? Gary plant's? I mean, I regular push through has too many tells, what if people recognize it? I guess you all understand that I am looking for a technique with as few tells as possible, preferably no tells if there is such a shuffle.
Kim |
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C. Loubard Special user 615 Posts |
What is the game you're talking about here?
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
I don't know, poker, blackjack... I guess.
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Clock Elite user Los Angeles, CA 460 Posts |
I disagree. I have seen the push through done many times very well with few tells making the zarrow look like childs play. Of course the zarrow (with its many variations) can also be done well but...
A push through shuffle with a deceptive method to bottom strip is gold in my book (for full deck controls). Very important to note that only one half is angled and pushed through (original top half). A big tell is when boh packect are angled. It is important to note that there ARE full deck control scams, I just meant that controlling all 52 cards is not that common. Example: False shuffle scams in blackjack and baccarat so the cards can be memorized and re-dealt. MagicKim, give the push through a chance! It's good stuff... |
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-11-22 19:16, MagicKim wrote: Oy...
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
Clock.. hm.. that is exactly what I am doing?
Z... huh? |
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Clock Elite user Los Angeles, CA 460 Posts |
MagicKim,
You said that a push through has too many tells...in short, I was saying that I think it does not. If you are doing it correctly then I'm not sure what tells you are talking about. Possibly the action of the packet being pushed through? It should be well hidden when done right. "I mean, I regular push through has too many tells, what if people recognize it? I guess you all understand that I am looking for a technique with as few tells as possible, preferably no tells if there is such a shuffle. " - MagicKim All will have tells, but for me, a push through looks the best and has the least. I can't think of any other videos that perfrorm it... Not too sure what you are looking for, but I hope that helps! |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
What I meant was to get the push through to have few tells as possible. Like steve forte, he does it really well, but the action looks great because of the speed.
1. I don't't have that speed. 2. People in general, not even skilled people in general, have that kind of speed. So can you make the push through look great without extreme speed? Then what are the important points if that is possible? Kim |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Mr. Forte's shuffle doesn't look good because of the speed. It looks good because he does the move well (at ANY speed).
There are no perfect moves (and if there are, they certainly won't be tipped here or to the likes of me). All shuffles have SOME tell, or disadvantage. A strip-out (be it push or pull) is a good/good/bad. The weave is real (good), the cards are pushed together, sorta (good), and then a strip-out or rectifying action (bad). A zarrow is good/bad/good. Cards weave (good), are separated and pushed under the top card/s(bad), then completely squared (good). I like that there is no action after the cards are pushed flush, and also that there is only one move (versus two with a strip). Hence my support for the Zarrow. But, since I am a magician, I prefer a pullout. I don't know if that makes sense, or if anyone agrees. If anyone DISAGREES, I would love to learn why! Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
I still haven't learnt the difference between a pull and push.. I know steve forte is incredible but still, I have not seen him do a kinda slow push through and something I have not seen him do, I can't comment. I just know that speed and smoothness helps a lot with the illusion.
I don't like the regular zarrow, or whatever I should call it, not at the card table. Then I prefer Gary Plant's version but unfortunately I don't like or use the grip he does so I have to change it somehow. Eventhough there is not a perfect false move, I still want to find the best method and do it as good as I possibly can. What is wrong with that? Kim |
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