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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorize a new deck or not? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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joakimsan
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Hello!
I need some advice. Some time ago I read about the MD and decided to start the work. I didn't really know much about it so I just tossed my deck in the air and whatever order I picked it up in would be my MD. Afer using it for a couple of weeks I realize that it would have been smarter to build in some packet tricks in my MD, for easy axess. It actually was hard work memorizing it so I'm not sure if I want to do that again.
Yout thoughts on this, and, can I use for instance "mnemonica" with my deck or is there any other book that I can use with "any" MD?


Thanks,
Joakim
edh
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Why didn't you just memorize the Aronson stack or Juan Tamiriz's stack or the BCS stack to begin with? All have some built in effects.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Scott Cram
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Before you take another step with memorized decks, read Memories Are Made of This by Simon Aronson. This work contains the best thoughts on what to look for in a memorized deck.
joakimsan
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Edh - I didn't know there was an Aronson or Tamariz stack at the time!! I just thought it had a great potential and just plunged in.

Scott - I'll see if I can find it. I just found your Memory Effects that I will keep for the future.

But still, do you think I should memorize a new deck? I could probably do some ajustments to my own deck.
MagicAggie
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Or Joyal's Six Hour Memorized Deck. I've used this one for a while now. Easy to learn and you can generally adjust any MD trick to use the stack you've memorized.
Loopback
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I learned the Osterling Memorized BCS. The BCS provides a nice backup plan should you forget the stack.

When I can't sleep at night I start at the first card and work through the stack mentally.

I don't know if others do this but I took a deck and wrote on the back of the cards both the stack number of the card and the mnemonic for the card. Then I take the cards I have the most trouble with and tape a picture of the mnemonic right on the back of the card.
Scott Cram
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Quote:
On 2007-11-27 03:15, joakimsan wrote:
Scott - I'll see if I can find it. I just found your Memory Effects that I will keep for the future.

But still, do you think I should memorize a new deck? I could probably do some ajustments to my own deck.


If you want to find it, just click the highlighted text, and it will take you right to it! ( http://www.simonaronson.com/memorizedhome.htm )

Memorizing a different deck could have several advantages, depending on what you want. Do you want to be able to get into it from new deck order? Do you want to have any stacks for effects built in to the stack? Are you happy with how random your current memorized order appears?

You're the one who would be memorizing a new stack, so the question is are you happy with it? Are there other features you wish it had. That is why I recommend Simon Aronson's Memories Are Made of This. It lets you know about the full potential of the memorized stack concept, and helps you decide what features are important to you.
Billgussen
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Quote:
I don't know if others do this but I took a deck and wrote on the back of the cards both the stack number of the card and the mnemonic for the card. Then I take the cards I have the most trouble with and tape a picture of the mnemonic right on the back of the card.


I gave up on the mnemonics and just went to rote memorization of the card and number. Using the mnemonics was just an extra step for me that took too much time in performance. So I took a deck and wrote the stack number for each card on the bottom of the card. Then I shuffle the deck, cover the bottom with my hand, and use them as flash cards forcing me to identify each card with its stack number. (But it's nice to have BCS's backup system too -- I always seem to get stuck when the stack number gets into the 40s.)

Bill
Scott Cram
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Some people poo-poo going using rote memorization, but it's not all that bad. Bert Allerton used rote to memorize his stack, and said he was able to learn it quicker that way than if he'd used mnemonics.

If you do decide to go rote, I recommend using a flashcard program. There are numerous sites that will let you create free flashcards online:

http://www.proprofs.com/flashcards/
http://www.quisition.com/
http://cueflash.com/
http://www.flashcardmachine.com/
http://quizlet.com/
http://jmemorize.org/
http://www.memorizeinaflash.com/
http://memorizable.com/
http://www.studystack.com/
joakimsan
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I divied my deck into four parts. I thought that if I can remember a sequence of 13 cards I could probably do that four times. It started out as an attempt to see how fast I could learn to remember that sequence. I used math to remember it. Every prime number between 1-52, square numbers, cubic numbers and so on has its own card. Some cards I remember by it's location. For instance my 7 of spades is between the 4 of diamonds and 4 of harts, nr. 37 and 39. I guess that's a kind of mnemonic.
To practise I wrote the card number on the back(big) and face, upper right corner( I'm left handed) of the cards and shuffled up and went through the deck card by card. Just to get the connection number-card and card-number.

Scott - Thanks, I didn't have my glasses on...
Nick Pudar
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Also, my StackView software allows for flash card testing. It is ideal for either rote memorization or customized mnemonics. It can be done with any stack, whether existing or customized. Check it out at http://www.stackview.com
Nick
Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
www.stackview.com Version 5.0 is available!
kosmoshiva
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Joakimsan, I too use a suit-by-suit arrangement, using Osterlind's BCS. Split into 4x13 and spread on an imaginary grid, I can thus split the deck at any point in the cycle and jump around the grid, much like experienced backgammon players can figure out their moves ...
Don't forget to breathe.
joakimsan
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I think you misunderstood me kosmoshiva, my deck is compleatly random. I just divided it into four parts for the learning process.
cardfreakhk
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Joakimsan - You are a very brave man! I can't imagine that someone would just memorize a random stack! HAHAHA!!! You are the MAN!!!
I would suggest you go for Juan's or Simon's, but not Richard's!
BCS is not even better than the S. , and I think many people agree.
If you have the experience, M. or A. are very easy for you to memorize!

Nick - Thanks for the StackView! It helps us a lot! GREAT program! And it is FREE!
Don't just dream, stay awake and action!
andrelimantara
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I love MD now... I perform MD effect mostly these days

It fries laymen and magicians

Cheers
Andre
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
Billgussen
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Quote:
BCS is not even better than the S. , and I think many people agree.


It's better in only one way (as far as I can tell), it has a backup in case you get a memory block on your stack. Many magicians use MDs in their magic every single day, and because of the constant use, they don't need a mathmatical backup. But I'm still a hobbiest, and I can go for weeks without doing a MD effect, and during the off time, I may forget what's in the 43rd position. With BCS, as long as I remember 42, I can pretty easily get 43.

However, for number and variety of effects, I've heard that Aronson and Tamiriz are much better than BCS.

Bill
daver
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Quote:
On 2007-11-27 23:43, Scott Cram wrote:
Some people poo-poo going using rote memorization, but it's not all that bad. Bert Allerton used rote to memorize his stack, and said he was able to learn it quicker that way than if he'd used mnemonics.

If you do decide to go rote, I recommend using a flashcard program. There are numerous sites that will let you create free flashcards online:....


Many of you probably know this already, but in Mnemonica (I'm sure you know this, but others may not), Juan actually suggests creating a set of flashcards from a Mnemonica stack, which is exactly what I did and helped me greatly. I took his idea and went a little overboard, where on each card, I wrote it's number in the stack in a very unique way. For example, on card 21, the 3 of spades, I wrote a "21" with the digits large and on each side of the middle spade on the card, or on card 4, the 3 of clubs, I wrote the 4 large in the middle with the center club of the three pattern inside the body of the 4.

This gives me a set of cards in order with before and afters, as well as the direct access position with visual cues. Using the deck as a set of flash cards just meant writing all over a (already old and well used ;-) deck. For those interested. I learned it rote, but with these cues. Made life a lot easier. I'm a visual person by nature so of course it played to my strength, but FWIW...

Dave
Dave



What's the difference between a magician and a deck of cards? A deck of cards has FOUR suits...
Dennis Loomis
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Memorizing a random deck is suggested by Darwin Ortiz. Mike Close thinks its a silly idea. The only advantage I can see is that you will have a unique stack and no other magician is going to spot it by looking at the cards. But is fooling your brother magicians more important that having built in effects?

I would suggest a change. First, as Scott suggests earlier in the thread, read Simon Aronson's thoughts on his web site. After that, you may want to use his stack, or possibly Mnemonica. I don't think you should choose a stack based on how long it takes to learn it. If you have some tricks you really like, that require stacks, you may want to create your own stack and incorparate the necessary stacks into it.

For myself, I have worked with the Aronson stack for quite a while and there is so much you can do with it that I recommend it highly. Besides all of the original stuff Simon built into it, (which you can read about in Simon's book: Bound to Please) so much work has been done with it afterwards by Simon himself, Josh Jay, and so many others. You now have a huge amount of material which you can do.

Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
joakimsan
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After doing some reserch I probably will change, but I'm also thinking about keeping my current stack. It can not be a bad thing to have two MD's! Smile We'll se if I can do that without messing both up!!


Thank you for your comments,
Joakim
Dennis Loomis
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To joakimsan,
Certainly memorizing two stacks can be done, but it may create some confusion, at least initially. In particular, having your stack "cold" means knowing the order of the cards independent of their stack numbers. You know that the five of spades follows the seven of spades, not because their stack numbers are 19 and 20, but just because you know. Keeping two such sequences separate will be a challenge and I suggest you think about how you are going to do that.

The interesting question is if you memorize a stack with a lot of built in effects, why do you need or want a second stack which has nothing built in? What can you do with that deck that you can't do with the other? If one wanted to know two stack, it would be somewhat advantageous to know both Aronson and Mnemonica. There are some effects with both of those that you can only do with the particular stack. If one did this, and had made use of some deck switches, you certainly could create a strong set. It might really fry some memdeck users, although only a handful of people in the world would know that you couldn't do the effect you did with the stack they thought you were using.

Whatever you decide... best of luck. Memdeck magic is very strong and there's an inner satisfaction of a different kind than what you get with sleights. Those that do both extremely well, like Mike Close, are in a league of their own.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
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