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card cheat
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 12:40, silverking wrote:
I'd suggest that much of this discussion may be a personal discussion between Jason, Doc, and Z......maybe a couple more folks.

If other posters avoid getting too involved, and fanning flames that really aren't theirs to fan, the forum will likely survive with its present cast of characters intact.


When you're right, you're right.

If I ever took a leave of absence from from posting in this forum, this kind of mudslinging would be why. I am embarassed that I became wrapped up in it, and apologize for doing so.

Not for my stance on the matter, however. I still believe it is wrong to be told, or given, anything in confidence and subsequently dole it out sans permission from the donator. I guess I learned a while back that, in this game, you get much farther if you're able to be trusted by those that can help you.

I also considered that this might not be the best time for these things to be shared.

But, Silver's right; it's not my battle. In retrospect, what I should've done is voiced my opinion that it is wrong to do and then got out of it. As is here for all to see, it escalated and got out of hand. I had a part in that, and disapprove of some of my actions and statements issued.

I stuck up for Jason not because he needs me to, but because I believe that he is right. I believe very strongly in being tight-lipped. This is why most people here feel that I don't know anything.

I have no hard feelings to anyone here, even though that might be hard to believe based on what I have said in this thread and others. However, right is right and wrong is wrong. That applies to all of us universally, and we are all responsible for our own actions and fault in the end.

As also recommended by Silver, I hope that we can get back to what should matter most to us all. Cards and dice. I hope it's more one than the other, though.

Perhaps we should petition that the administrators of this site create a forum called "The Boxing Ring", in which all debates, arguments or down-right hissy fits of this sort could be confined.

Hopefully, I can regain respect of those that claim to have lost it for me. At the end of the day though, I still get money.

CC
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 12:40, silverking wrote:
I'd suggest that much of this discussion may be a personal discussion between Jason, Doc, and Z......maybe a couple more folks.

If other posters avoid getting too involved, and fanning flames that really aren't theirs to fan, the forum will likely survive with its present cast of characters intact.

Talking about posting videos and "ethics" is fine....but this really isn't about ethics, it's about trust. That makes it difficult for outsiders to contribute anything of real value, myself included (although this post is just an attempt to chill things down a bit for my own reading enjoyment).

IMHO, much of the conversation is best left to those personally involved in it.

Maybe a hiatus on the rhetoric, with the serious personal stuff moved to PM's.

...............and then back to cards and dice.

Just an idea.


Well said.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
onbekende020
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I really liked the video, the speed/way you handle the cards is very nice! Still I would like to see the same moves done wit borderd cards...

Was that a strike or push-of second deal?

Looking foward to see more of your skills....

USM
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 19:07, USM#80 wrote:

Was that a strike or push-of second deal?



The first was a strike. The stud deal is a pushoff.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Ben Train
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 19:33, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-10 19:07, USM#80 wrote:

Was that a strike or push-of second deal?



The first was a strike. The stud deal is a pushoff.


The stud was a push-off? I was up all night practicing!
If you're reading this you're my favorite magician.
KingStardog
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Quote:
On 2007-12-08 20:58, KingStardog wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-08 16:56, Mr. Z wrote:

Context is everything of course. I'm in and around the casino business, thus I think my "style" if you will is appropriate for it. It doesn't get much "bigger" than having over $1,000,000 in your rack, with cameras all around and personnel trained to look for that sort of thing. I think most would agree trying to look like a lump in this situation is the exact opposite of what you'd want. Also, for the sake of pure demonstration, especially on camera, I think it's the way to go if you can swing it.

My .02.


Kewl, my Grandfather's construction company built most of old Vegas. Our family tree sprouted grew from there. Still have plenty of family there in management. May be you can elaborate as to your standing. Pm would be fine.


Still waiting to hear who's rack is holding that 1,000,000.00. I feel I have qualified myself well for the public, and was awaiting a response.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 19:39, KingStardog wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-08 20:58, KingStardog wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-08 16:56, Mr. Z wrote:

Context is everything of course. I'm in and around the casino business, thus I think my "style" if you will is appropriate for it. It doesn't get much "bigger" than having over $1,000,000 in your rack, with cameras all around and personnel trained to look for that sort of thing. I think most would agree trying to look like a lump in this situation is the exact opposite of what you'd want. Also, for the sake of pure demonstration, especially on camera, I think it's the way to go if you can swing it.

My .02.


Kewl, my Grandfather's construction company built most of old Vegas. Our family tree sprouted grew from there. Still have plenty of family there in management. May be you can elaborate as to your standing. Pm would be fine.


Still waiting to hear who's rack is holding that 1,000,000.00. I feel I have qualified myself well for the public, and was awaiting a response.


Hmm?
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
KingStardog
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Your in and around the casino business. Please elaborate as to your work.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
onbekende020
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Aight...the strike is freakin invisible, nice!

USM
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2007-12-10 19:43, KingStardog wrote:
Your in and around the casino business. Please elaborate as to your work.


I'm not going to go into that, no offense.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Mr. Z
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On 2007-12-11 06:27, Yiannis wrote:
If they don't really want their stuff around, DON'T let ANYONE videotape you!!


Well when you're told "I promise this won't go anywhere..." and then it does, it certainly isn't their fault. There was an obvious violation of trust there.

While it's cute to snicker at the issue of ethics in this type of forum, in the real world outside of the Internet, with living, breathing human beings, you gain that sought-after knowledge through being a stand-up person and earning trust and respect. It's as simple as that. Just trying to leech anything you can get a hold of no matter how may get you points for ambition, but probably isn't going to do much for you anyways, if that's your attitude.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
stoneunhinged
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I initially registered here at the Café because I wanted to read more of Doc. I also consider him my friend (in that strange, internet sense of the word) as I do C. Loubard and some other cheats here at the Café. But if you think there is no morality here, no justice, no honor, you are mistaken.

It's easy to forget that. I myself said some insensitive things about Steve Forte when he was arrested. Some people called me on it, and I'm sorry I wrote what I did (fortunately, the thread got deleted, so my comments aren't here anymore). The rules here may not be the same as in the Gospel Magic forum, but there *are* rules, and there is a sense of honor. I also think that Doc would agree.

Jeff
Yiannis
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Jeff,

is hypocritical to talk about justice, honor and morality in a sub-forum that its main talk is about how to cheat, hustle, exploit and deceive others by any means necessary.

Maybe you think this place is for "educational purpose", but you forget that Doc is a real life hustler and he puts his knowledge and skills in "good" use to survive. People are here to learn and exchange cheating material, not to debate on morality, violation of trust etc.
stoneunhinged
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I'm not here for "educational purposes", and I have forgotten nothing. Apparently it is you--"People are here to...[snip], not to....[snip]"--who thinks he gets to decide what's right or wrong around here. If you don't like the debate, get out of it, but don't go around thinking someone appointed you the sheriff of the Gambler's Forum.

There is law in the jungle. And the first law may be trust no one. But the second law is, If I trust you...don't break that trust. There is absolutely no hypocrisy involved.
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2007-12-11 09:02, Yiannis wrote:
Maybe you think this place is for "educational purpose", but...

People are here to learn...


Why wouldn't it be classifed as existing for an educational purpose if people come here to learn?

CC
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Jeff,

I'm defending Doc's right to do whatever he wants with the material he has traded. Jason is doing the sheriff here by calling out Doc everytime he posts something, that it's in conflict with his interests, on Youtube.

And in the jungle, there is only one law and it's universal. "Only the strong survive".
card cheat
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Yiannis,

I just want to ask you:

If you gave me footage of you performing a move, and asked me not to hand it out, would you like it if I just handed it out?

CC
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To Whom This May Concern:

I'm presently on the road hustling so I can't write like I want to, to this forum. Yiannis and any one else who cares to look or listen to what I have to say, you gain knowledge from anywhere you can because what you learn today may save your life tomorrow.

These guys here are not interested in saving your life, they are only interested in themselves. Why do you say that Doc? Which one of them ever told you not to gamble? Which one of them told you that the same fate for the card/dice cheat, is the same for the magician? When you fell (messed up in some way) which one of them picked you up (showed you things) and guided you in the right direction (so you wouldn't be killed while waiting on our Lord) in order to save your life? None.

I'm going on record right here and now for the future readers of this thread and saying that everything that Jason, Mr. Z, ASW, CC says is not totally wrong and then again they are not totally right either. Why? The best lie ever told was mixed with truth "You will NOT surely die" meaning...you will die but you really won't be dead. You will live on as...or be reincarnated as...and the list goes on.

Always pay attention to details and if possible read between the lines. I don't know if this is in the bible or not but there is a wise saying that I once heard that goes like this "Watch as Well as Pray." I don't understand? The same guys who are saying I'm wrong for saying what I say or doing what I do is also looking, learning and copying my videos; so what does that tell you? That they're doing exactly what I just told Yiannis to do; to gain as much knowledge from anywhere you can. They're just doing it in their own sneaky ass-way (dressing up in sheep clothing).

About Me

We all have certain things about us meaning our personality that is embedded in us that makes us who we are that we can't change. The one thing about me that I don't like is someone saying something about me that’s not true. Yes we've all been lied to or on but when someone keep saying that I did something and I know that I didn't do anything wrong and the people who trusted in me start believing them and not me, that's when I get ****ed-off

Jason if you're really Steve, Rod The Hop and Sal's friend as you say you are then you should have told them that even though I've shown footage of them that it was of their hands etc. and not of their faces and I DID NOT EXPOSE ANY CHEATING MOVES THAT THEY HAVE TAUGHT ME.

What Will Break My Agreement With Them?

You Jason England along with some others who I care less about keep claiming that I'm showing the secrets of the moves when in all actuality I'm not; just like a magician who shows a trick but doesn't show the secret is not revealing anything. Example: Dai Vernon shows the middle deal in footage but doesn't reveal the secret. Likewise I showed the same.

You tell your friends, especially Steve that you speak to every week that if YOU (Jason England) keep lying on me, telling them that I am showing the secrets to their moves and I'm not, I will be posting the teaching methods to the moves and then they would really have something to be upset about and it will be because of you that I will; because if I'm going to be branded as a tattletale/low-life, I might as well live up to the name and be the best at it.

To Any One That Has Been At The Magic Café Since I Came...

Jason and others here say that I have posted footage of the secrets of Steve, Sal and Rod The Hop at one time or another and I say I didn't. I did post the naturalness of moves but never the secret or teachings of the moves. Now if any one of them can post footage of me showing any of these guys doing moves and them teaching me their technique, I will no longer post here and their so-called wish of me not telling anything again will be granted.

Put up or shut up, I await the footage.


Respectfully,

Doc
card cheat
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On 2007-12-16 22:04, Unknown419 wrote:
The same guys who are saying I'm wrong for saying what I say or doing what I do is also looking, learning and copying my videos


First of all, I have never copied anyone's video clips, that includes anything you have put down. There is nothing in your clips that relates in any way to what I work with, and if it does it's something that I am already aware of.

So, you're right. You don't post "teaching" footage. But, it's still wrong of you to be putting that stuff up when it was given to you in confidence.

I'm a cheat, not a hypocrite.

How 'bout you? If you allowed me to film you and had told you that nobody else would see the footage, would you be happy if I posted any part or portion of it on a website viewed by millions of people anonymously?

CC
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Quote:
On 2007-12-16 22:49, card cheat wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-16 22:04, wrote:
The same guys who are saying I'm wrong for saying what I say or doing what I do is also looking, learning and copying my videos


First of all, I have never copied anyone's video clips, that includes anything you have put down. There is nothing in your clips that relates in any way to what I work with, and if it does it's something that I am already aware of.

So, you're right. You don't post "teaching" footage. But, it's still wrong of you to be putting that stuff up when it was given to you in confidence.

I'm a cheat, not a hypocrite.

How 'bout you? If you allowed me to film you and had told you that nobody else would see the footage, would you be happy if I posted any part or portion of it on a website viewed by millions of people anonymously?

CC


CC I was speaking in general to whom it applied to but to answer your question, I would not be happy but this WAS NOT MY AGREEMENT THEREFORE THIS DOES NOT APPLY. Readers just like the Devil added one word to God's words changing what He said, CC is doing the same to make himself look right in this incident. Even though CC no nothing of my agreement beside that fact that he wasn't even there nor heard what was said. My agreement was, and I quote "I CAN SHOW WHOM EVER I WANT BUT DON'T SHOW THE TEACHING METHODS OF THE STUFF (especially to the people he told me not to); that was my agreement and I have honored it and my test will show all of you that the Doc is not a hypocrite and has honored his word.

1 down 3 to go.

Respectfully,

Doc
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