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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Christains and violent illusions (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Clark
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Quote:
On 2007-12-20 10:46, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-19 22:39, Gospel Dan wrote:

And, our objective shouldn't be to shock or gross our audience with blood and gore just to get them to hear God's Word, no matter who the audience is.



Gee, I wish someone had told Mel Gibson this before he made The Passion Smile



My point exactly a little higher up in this thread.... Smile
“The key to creativity is in knowing how to hide your sources.”
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Terry Owens
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You're not comparing apples to apples. Two entirely different things, in order for the Passion of the Christ to be portrayed correctly on film, it had to show those scenes or else you have another fluff movie about Jesus. Those scenes were historically accurate, and I for one was stirred and moved as I watched the movie. It was not meant to be a popcorn movie, it was meant to be thought provoking and spiritually moving.

What redeeming value does shock magic bring? Amusement? Hmmmm A-meaning not, muse to think...
Dan Bernier
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The Passion Of Christ was a hollywood made movie, and Mel Gibson is an anti-semitic,alcoholic,womanizer, so I fail to see the point of bringing up either Mel Gibson or his version of the "Passion".

However, I should of asked this question sooner, but I'll ask it now. What kind of blood and gore are we talking about here?. Not that I think that any blood and gore is appropriate, but I always love healthy debates over what is appropreciate for Christians and what is not appropriate for Christians. As Christians we shouldn't try to keep each other on seperate sides of the fence, but always work for unity in the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ. I think it's only appropriate that we start using scripture to support our beliefs, this will help weed out those who don't take the time to actually read God's Word.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think. But set your mind to be right-minded, even as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Dan Bernier
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I know it sounds like I just passed judgement on poor Mel Gibson, but I am only reliterating what I've read about him in the news and magazines. I just thought I should clear that up before I get rebuked for turning against Mel Gibson.(lol)
As for the movie, "Passion Of Christ" I hope to avoid making any comment on it because Terry says it very well.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Terry Owens
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Thanks Gospel Dan...by the way, I have Canadians who are members of my church.
GlenD
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I guess if you don't have an audience you can be as self absorbed and stubborn, regarding your material, as you want to be.

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Jack Diamond
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Pardon my late reply, the computer had(and still has) a problem.

I agree a bit with everyone, I'm in a way neutral.......

Like some of you said, it all runs down to who you are performing for-and how.
I wont agree with trying to make your magic seem sadistic though, that couldn't possibly be glorying Jesus!

Thanks every one!
FriarShaun
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What I find interesting is how often the use of graphic content offends the same people who gorge on this material through television, movies, and video games. Because I work with youth, I often use illustrations, pictures, and concepts that are graphic. I don't do this gratuitously, I do it with purpose. Shock, humor, tragedy, and offense are emotions. Emotion is like a door to the soul, when properly coupled with truth they can be very affective at reaching people who are asleep spiritually. We must be careful not to manipulate people with emotion, but when it allows an opening for truth it is but an aspect of the human design God gave for this very purpose.
Ed_Millis
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There's got to be a distinction made between the principles you hold and the methods you use: if you change your principles to suit your audience, you're a hypocrite (or a presidential candidate!!); if you change your methods to suit your audience, you're an evangelist.

If you refuse to ever change anything for another person, then don't ever get married!! And understanding that marriage is a picture of our relationship to Jesus and how He expects us to change for Him, the person who refuses to change thier affections and ideas of right and wrong will never have a deep relationship with Jesus, Who comes into our life to change us.

Maturity is knowing the difference between what needs to be set in stone and what can be altered to facilitate a relationship, and how far you can take the alteration without compromising your core beliefs and principles.

To say "take me as I am or leave me alone!" is a very selfish idea. Jesus takes me as I am, but He doesn't leave me alone.

Jack Diamond asked about doing certain effects for certain audiences. The answer is a clear-cut "it depends". Who is your audience? What is the impact you want to make? Are you trying to make simply an emotinal impact? Or are you trying to use the impact to carry home a message? Will the emotional impact of the effect overwhelm your message, so they remember only the effect and not the message?

While Tempesta makes some very good observations about Christians who don't live in the real world (as I used to be), I think the "take me as I am or you are wrong" mentality is too much like the "world" (using the Romans 12 definition). If you are hired for a show and they know your material and hired _you_ because of what _you_ do, then by all means do what you do! But if you go into a situation where there are people you know might be offended, and you would rather offend to make a point than bend to present a message, then you are wrong, in my never-to-be-humble opinion (<g>!!).

Ed
Ethan the emazing
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I also agree it depends on your style and the crowd your performing for. What some teens find "cool" and interesting, some people may not. What reaches them, may not reach others.
Dan Bernier
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Just as long as it's biblical, spiritually healthy, and glorifying to God.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
FriarShaun
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Whoah Deja Vu
Ethan the emazing
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Quote:
On 2008-02-10 01:16, Gospel Dan wrote:
Just as long as it's biblical, spiritually healthy, and glorifying to God.


Agreed. But if you use it like I usually use most of my magic, you don't have to have a spiritual application. I do magic, then separately present the gospel/tract. The reason I do this is because I've found people are more likely to read or hear what you have to say if I show them a few tricks first.
Dan Bernier
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You keep doing what you're doing Ethan, and be consistent. God will use you as I'm sure he already has to lead people to you who are ready to hear God's Word, and be convicted of their sins. You may never know it, but some who have received a tract from you might of gone home that day and cried out to God Almighty!
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Kerry Kistler
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Hey Gang,

You may find an article I wrote useful. It was published in the Christian Conjurer and can be read on my site at http://www.kistlerministry.org/magic

Look for the title "To Chop Or Not To Chop." It deals mostly with choppers but the principles could be applied to other "violent" tricks.

Cheers,
Kerry
Terry Owens
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Thanks Kerry
Dan Bernier
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Hi Kerry,
I'm off topic here but I noticed that you are an FCM forum staff. Would you know how I would go about getting a new membership card? I posted the question on the FCM forum as well, but it's pretty quiet over there. Thanks!
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Kerry Kistler
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Terry, you're welcome. Hope you find it interesting reading.

Dan, send a note to Mike Stenberg at the FCM Mail Center. He should be able to hook you up. mailcenter@fcm.org

Cheers,
Kerry
Darkwing
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Quote:
On 2008-02-20 17:06, Kerry Kistler wrote:
Hey Gang,

You may find an article I wrote useful. It was published in the Christian Conjurer and can be read on my site at http://www.kistlerministry.org/magic

Look for the title "To Chop Or Not To Chop." It deals mostly with choppers but the principles could be applied to other "violent" tricks.

Cheers,
Kerry


Kerry, your article was very well done.

I do not do any type of disection illusion. In a family show, I personally think it is in poor taste.

David
Dan Bernier
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Hi Kerry,

That was the first thing I tried to do, but never got any response. I thought if I posted it in the FCM forum I might get a response, but nil. However, it never hurts to keep trying. Thanks!
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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