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C.W.G. Loyal user 275 Posts |
Heres something that might spark a lively debate... I know two other hypnotists (one is a stage and clinical hypnotist.. and the other just a clinical). And neither of them has ever experienced a positive or negative hallucination while in trance themselves... Nor do they know of any other hypnotist that has.
This would seriously support the theory that hypnosis is compliance, especially as it's harder to hypnotise someone for stage routines if there are only the two of you in the room, where as on a stage people are more willing to go with it as there is an audience which leads to other theories such as the person on stage wants to act out or feels that they have to go along with it as they think that is what is expected of them or that they are being bullied by the hypnotist etc. I'd like to hear your views on this guys? |
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Vincent.Lynch Elite user 409 Posts |
I'm a hypnotist and I've experienced hallicinations on stage and had no memory of them;.. oooh,.. I remember being scared during invisibility, but that's it.
I've hypnotised hypnotists and given them hallicinations.. |
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
There is no phenomena that occurs in hypnosis that doesn't occur in real life. And people have both postive and negative hallucinations apart from hypnosis - and so logic (and experience) tells me of course it happens under hypnosis. Ever look for your keys EVERYWHERE, only to find them in the middle of the kitchen table where you just looked? Ever open the firdge and look for katsup, only to find it right where is was supposed to be the second time you looked? Examples of negative hallucination in real life. Of course it is easy to replicate this in hypnosis. Positive hallucinations in real life: You swerve to miss a car or animal that isn't there, that for a fleeting second you thought was there. Hypnosis is not magic, ALL hypnotic phenomena occurs in real life apart from hypnosis, and so having it occur during hypnosis is a piece of cake.
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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C.W.G. Loyal user 275 Posts |
I know what your saying about it occurring in real life... But it happening under trance conditions to someone who is in the know about positive and negative hallucinations, I've never heard of until Vincent put up that post and I've asked around!
But take for example the classic Invisible hypnotist routine... The person in trance always looks away from where the hypnotist is standing and when they do the waving the hand to "see if he is standing near them" they wave their hand in the wrong place. Also everyone that I have seen hypnotised for this routine, I felt that they were not congruent with their actions, my own subconscious always felt like they knew exactly what was going on... |
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
I've done invisible hypnotist in shows...they don't look away nor are they incongruent.
I have seen other hypnotists do this routine also with good results that don't resemble what you have seen. Perhaps you have been watching Jonathan Royle. |
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-12-10 17:26, mota wrote: That is freaking funny!
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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TheTrance-Master New user 91 Posts |
I too have done the Invisabile bit, they've looked right through me and while looking at me.
I've also levitated an object and they've seen it float around without me holding it, so they've seen selectively based upon suggestion. |
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Vincent.Lynch Elite user 409 Posts |
I study at university in psychology, errm I would just like to point to modern scientific journals that show hypnosis as a neurological state where the prefrontal lobe has no comminication with the neuro-hypnotic expression. I mean science is about making up ur own mind based on the relevant recent data.
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C.W.G. Loyal user 275 Posts |
Hmmm.... I dunno. Well to look at it another way, can someone be hypnotised against their will? No. Can you make a subject commit murder under hypnosis? No (ask Mesmer, he tried to have himself killed during a stage show). So this will lead us heavily into the area of complience on the subjects part, where he/she goes along with it for whatever reason. Has any hypnotist ever had someone run out of the building during The Invisible Man routine, levitating objects or not? No. What would happen if the Invisible Man routine happened outside of hypnosis (ie in real life)? People would faint, people would scream... and people would run.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE hypnosis and am studying it myself, big time, but I would rather be real about what is happening besides massaging my own or anyone else's ego. By the way, I really WOULD like to proved wrong here guys. Its just something that has been bugging me. |
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C.W.G. Loyal user 275 Posts |
One more thing guys, who can honestly say that while doing the Invisible Man routine, that the subject has bumped into the hypnotist or hit them with their hand because they simply couldn't see him.
Now I have considered the idea that the subjects subconscious is confused about what is happening there for it wont acknowledge what it is and "is not" seeing there for it'll guide the subject away from what it is confused about? Any thoughts on that? |
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Vincent.Lynch Elite user 409 Posts |
The hypnosis-invisible chair test is the phenoma your refering to,. I think it would be worthwhile reading the neurological information on why exactly the subject does not bump into the invisible chair.
Just to mention another thing, colorblindness.. its important to understand that when subjects are induced with colorblindness its neurologically the same as actually having colorblindness.. Also.. George Estabrooks was a famous hypnotist, who worked with the psychological and neurological science communities in the 60's and 70's.. he successfully demonstrates the use of immoral hypnosis. Its just something hypnotists keep ssssh ssssh. stop reading books wrote by hypnotists, start reading books wrote by psychologists and scientific journals.. that's my advice, p.s the thing on invisibility, just to mention nearly everytime I've seen invisibility performed at least one subject has ran out the building and had to be chased down. very unethical... but yes.. its that scary |
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C.W.G. Loyal user 275 Posts |
Thanks Vincent, your making interesting points in fairness. Can you recommend any books that would cover those topics.
And just one more thing regarding seeing colours, I read a test was performed on a number of subjects where the were told that clear glass was coloured glass, and that all the glasses had different colours such as green and red and blue etc, the then hypnotised subjects were then asked to mix two random glasses together and name what colour they then saw... And they were all either wrong, or came up with different colours? My guess was that the mind didn't know the correct information so it guessed it? Any input there? |
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readytogo New user 70 Posts |
A lot of the time when I bring people out of trance they'll say to me, "I knew what I was doing was wrong and I could see and understand everything perfectly but for some reason I was just doing what you said."
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
Yup that is a common reaction unless you dictate otherwise. Does it unsettle you?
I know for some it suggests that it is just social compliance. To me it is more likely the first attempt at conscious rationalization. They are trying to get their head round why they did all that stuff. Ant
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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readytogo New user 70 Posts |
I don't think so anthony, I have a friend I hypnotize all the time. When he's in it I give him the suggestion for example, "you see everything in a purple hue." When he's hypnotized I say to him, "are you really seeing everything in a purplish hue or are you just hypnotized." He says, "everything is purple what are you talking about?" When he comes out he tells me, "Everything wasn't purple I was just saying it was because I couldn't say otherwise. In the back of my mind I was just getting super ****ed off cuz I knew I wasn't seeing everything purple."
Take it for what it is I guess. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
"p.s the thing on invisibility, just to mention nearly everytime I've seen invisibility performed at least one subject has ran out the building and had to be chased down. very unethical... but yes.. its that scary"
What is really scarey is you don't know the basics of stage hypnosis and safety suggestions. Look at your hand imagine a ring on your middle finger see it with a bright purple stone. From that stone listen carefully and imagine a high pitched sound that somehow tells you that you've just experience a visual and auditory hallucination. Hallucinations are a part of everyday life we have them all the time. In hypnosis subjects are highly suggestibale so they can be directed to hallucinate with the usual ability to tell the difference between some thing visualised or imagined and what is real subdued. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
"I don't think so anthony, I have a friend I hypnotize all the time. When he's in it I give him the suggestion for example, "you see everything in a purple hue." When he's hypnotized I say to him, "are you really seeing everything in a purplish hue or are you just hypnotized." He says, "everything is purple what are you talking about?" When he comes out he tells me, "Everything wasn't purple I was just saying it was because I couldn't say otherwise. In the back of my mind I was just getting super ****ed off cuz I knew I wasn't seeing everything purple."
Take it for what it is I guess." I also think " A flaw in hypnosis" is a misleading suggestions. flaw? Perhaps a flaw in the original post. Without going into any references about hypnosis my experince has always been that some people experience what appear to be deeper states than others. The majority I questioned over the years said they couldn't remember anything. A smaller number about 20% said they knew what they were doing but couldn't stop theselves. Other I have questioned said could see the hallucinations. Your mind can do it easily just look at an empty seat in our living room. Now imagine someone you know sitting in it. You should be able to see the real seat and an imaginary friend in it. The only thing that's different from that and being in trance is that you can tell the diffrence between the pictures in your mind and the pictures generated from looking at objects outside yourself. |
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readytogo New user 70 Posts |
I 100% agree mp.
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
Readytogo,
why do you think he says 'I couldn't say otherwise'? Best rgds Ant
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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readytogo New user 70 Posts |
Because they lose their inhibitions, and they stop caringso they just go along with it.
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