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JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2007-12-18 19:29, Josh Riel wrote:
Cre·den·tial (krĭ-dìn'shəl) Pronunciation Key
n.
1) That which entitles one to confidence, credit, or authority.
2) credentials Evidence or testimonials concerning one's right to credit, confidence, or authority

Quote:
Thus we may establish that to use credentials as the basis for an argument is a logical fallacy.


We may establish that your use of the term "credentials" is a logical fallacy.... Credentials do not make a person correct, true. Credentials are however evidence that the holder has experience or authority on a subject, therefore more likely to be correct. We can safely establish here that credentials are in fact a appropriate basis for an argument.


I really love the way you completely agreed with me, then completely disagreed with something you attribute to me, but that I have neither said, nor suggested. Following that you make a blatantly incorrect statement which completely contradicts that which you first agreed with. Bravo, Bravo.
stoneunhinged
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Once again, Josh's post is basically sound and utterly reasonable. Once again, as in the Food for Thought forum, you attack what you perceive as his faulty logic. Once again, I ask why.

You should have posted this thread in the Food for Thought forum so that I could increase my post count. My goal of catching up to JT is getting harder to reach each day.
Jerrine
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 10:48, stoneunhinged wrote:
Once again, Josh's post is basically sound and utterly reasonable.


Once again?
LobowolfXXX
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On 2007-12-16 08:54, Jaz wrote:
Drew says, "If I say that water is made of bubblegum and bailing wire, that is also a fact, albeit an incorrect one."

How can something be a fact if it's incorrect? Maybe in a deluded mind it's a fact.



It is NOT a fact; it is a "statement of fact" in that its nature is such that it is objectively verifiable.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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As to the genetic fallacy, while it poses an obvious problem with respect to deductive reasoning, considering the source is a very useful inductive tool. Example, 10 of your best friends go to both Doctor A and Doctor B (the only two doctors in your small town). In all 10 cases, Doctor A gives the correct diagnosis, and Doctor B gives an incorrect diagnosis. You develop a serious ailment, and Doctor A and Doctor B offer different diagnoses and suggest contradictory cures, each of which must be applied before you go to another health care facility, consult a third doctor, or even sign onto the internet. The nature of the cures is such that you can't try both. Who ya gonna trust?

Inductive reasoning is the ability to conclude general truths from specific instances; long before any human beings knew much about physics, the smart cave men knew that the sun will be visible in the sky starting at close to the same time every day. One could certainly argue that the fact that it had done so every day for the past 10,000 days didn't PROVE that it would do so tomorrow, but as a method of knowledge-gathering, induction is quite useful, if not perfect.

Specific past instances of a source being superior to another source are, similarly, useful evidence if not proof. That's why we don't pay our plumbers to tell us why we have a pain on our (collective) right side, below the rib cage.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Vandy Grift
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Don't bother Lobo.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2007-12-18 21:41, Leland Stone wrote:
"The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy," Robert Audi, general editor. Cambridge University Press, 1995.

I didn't mention statistics, I rebutted your previous informal error, which was followed after my post by another informal error known as the "Straw Man." In your post on credentials you ascribe to me a position I do not affirm; it is not my view that credentials in one field qualify all one's views on every subject as authoritative and true.


I think the straw man is Jack's personal favorite. I lost track of how many things I neither said nor implied were attributed to me and disagreed with in various posts.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
stoneunhinged
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On 2007-12-19 11:14, Jerrine wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-19 10:48, stoneunhinged wrote:
Once again, Josh's post is basically sound and utterly reasonable.


Once again?


Sorry, Jerrine. I was referring to the exchange between Josh and Drew in the Food for Thought forum. My second sentence made this clear, but my first sentence did not.

My point is that in both cases, Josh says something which makes sense, and Drew attacks it for illogic.

Again, sorry for the confusion. I would edit it but it's too late.
Josh Riel
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Quote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-19 11:14, Jerrine wrote:
Once again?

Quote:
Sorry, Jerrine. I was referring to the exchange between Josh and Drew in the Food for Thought forum. My second sentence made this clear, but my first sentence did not.



I understood that big meanie Jerrine! Just because most of what I post is pure bile, Jerrine acts surprised when I say something not bileiscious. Sometime my grand whit and great intelligence is wasted on you people...... I'm sure Drew is a wonderful fellow.... although we are now PM buddies Smile . I still hope for the day we can all hold hand and admit I was right.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Josh Riel
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My momma always used to say that if the whole world is agin' ya. Maybe they have a good reason?
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 12:36, Josh Riel wrote:
My momma always used to say that if the whole world is agin' ya. Maybe they have a good reason?


My momma said; If one person calls you an ass, you should shrug it off. If two people call you an ass, you should listen carefully. If three people call you an ass, put on a bridle.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 12:42, Vandy Grift wrote:

My momma said; If one person calls you an ass, you should shrug it off. If two people call you an ass, you should listen carefully. If three people call you an ass, put on a bridle.

That's funny...my momma said something similar:

"If one person calls you an ass, you should shrug it off. If two people call you an ass, you should listen carefully. If three people call you an ass, you're O.J."
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 10:48, stoneunhinged wrote:
Once again, Josh's post is basically sound and utterly reasonable. Once again, as in the Food for Thought forum, you attack what you perceive as his faulty logic. Once again, I ask why.

You should have posted this thread in the Food for Thought forum so that I could increase my post count. My goal of catching up to JT is getting harder to reach each day.


I did, big brother moved it here. I never allow my beliefs and decisions to be swayed by nothing more than the majority. Bandwagon is a Fallacy, nothing is ever true just because every one else believes it. Living your life by those standards is a good way to keep our world on exactly the course it is currently on.
Josh Riel
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True, and sometimes they are really all out to get the paranoid guy.

I would agree that this thread throws into sharp relief one of the problems that "keep our world on exactly the course it is currently on".

However, I imagine we would disagree on what that problem would be.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Josh Riel
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Sorry, I'm sure there was a fallacy there.......
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Jerrine
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Yeah but once again....basically sound and utterly reasonable, with just a touch of bile.
Josh Riel
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I don't know if I should say thank you, or cry.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
JackScratch
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I would say a long debate in which the majority argues that Ad Hominem is not only not a fallacy, but is in fact a superb logical rationalization, and nothing that academia has said on the subject can possibly be relevant, is a pretty good sign of the direction our world is headed and the problems I see causing that trend. The only person who has been able to give a logical account of the feelings this mob has had is LobowolfXXX. The source of information is a very good place for inductive reasoning, but it provides no logical "proof".

"Whenever you interpret evidence, you reason inductively. Every time you flick on a light switch, the lights come on, so you conclude that they will do so the next time you flick the switch. But inductive reasoning can never lead to absolute certainty. The next time you flick the switch, the lights may not come on. This is the basic method of science: a phenomenon is observed so often that scientists feel confident in reaching a conclusion.
Inductive reasoning is useful not only for arriving at conclusions, but for persuading others to accept conclusions you have already reached. An inductive argument is built of facts: as evidence mounts, your reader arrives at the conclusion you intend. It is crucial that the amount of evidence be sufficient. You also need to be sure the conclusion you draw fits the facts. Be sure you have not inadvertently ignored evidence that might invalidate your conclusion. Also resist the temptation to present only evidence that supports a predetermined conclusion."
-Harbrace College Handbook
Chessmann
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I don't think that a whole lot of people even know what "Ad Hominem" means. But even if they did, it would too often get lost the minute things got emotional...
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
JackScratch
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I would think I have little time for someone who argued that an Ad Hominim wasn't a fallacy if they didn't even know what an Ad Hominim was. I have no use for someone who says that something is wrong that they are completely uninformed about. I posted some thoughts about the use of logic in this forum and a list of the logical fallacies. The reply I got was a debate about Ad Hominim being a fallacy. I don't fault people for their lack of knowledge, ever. I always fault when they act on their lack of knowledge. Having to deal with people who refuse to learn is a hurdle our society has to jump all too often.
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