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Terry Holley
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Gospel/Christian magicians might find this research interesting:

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=......teID=286

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Payne
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So it appears that here in the colonies that the Age of Enlightenment was just something that occurred to other people Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
The Great Danton
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It seems a little pointless to me, I mean, it says that born again christians are more likely to take the stories at face value then non-born again christians....duh! Some of the other numbers were interesting, such as the things that more southerners believed then people from other places, etc.

I apologize if I come off as being a jerk here, but these are my thoughts on it.

T.G.D.
"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house."
RevJohn
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This isn't meant as anything but a clarifying question.

I read your sentence, Payne, and I can't figure it out. I don't know if there is an extra word (I am guessing "that") or missing punctuation... I know it is a jab, and probably a humorous one, if I could make out the intent.

What I am wondering is what makes the article that interesting to Gospel Magicians?

Again a serious question.

RevJohn
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-12-18 23:44, RevJohn wrote:

I read your sentence, Payne, and I can't figure it out. I don't know if there is an extra word (I am guessing "that") or missing punctuation... I know it is a jab, and probably a humorous one, if I could make out the intent.



I guess you'd have to be a Black Adder fan to get it.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
magicoftomh
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Thank you for posting this, Terry. As you may remember, I came from a strict Catholic upbringing. Though I am now American Baptist, I have always held the word of the Bible to be true. God makes any "symbolism" crystal clear, and we do not have to interpret truth from fiction.

Onto topic, I have approached my audiences exactly that way. I quote Biblical text, instead of interpreting my own way when presenting an effect.

When quoting Biblical text, I have learned from you, our dear friend Florian, and others that I can edit text, and not overwhelm my audience with TOO much text, while ALWAYS remembering to keep it in CONTEXT. I will do my very best to properly set up a routine with God's Word, without trying to stretch a "well chosen" dit or dat that will fit easily into my routine. I always try to remember what the underlying theme is in the Bible...and that is..."Who is in charge?" It works for me as I read God's Holy Word. It (hopefully)works for me as I present His Word through my magical performances.

But, that theme of "Who Is In Charge?" obviously does not strike home in those who are in the negative end of this survey. As a game show fan, I pray that whenever a survey comes out like this, the participants can tell us the survey says..."DING!"
Here's hoping everything you do hits the BULLSEYE!

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Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2007-12-18 23:44, RevJohn wrote:

What I am wondering is what makes the article that interesting to Gospel Magicians?

Again a serious question.

RevJohn


I stated "Gospel/Christian magicians might find this research interesting." Some might not.

I find it interesting because I'm desirous to know, if performing for a church group, what a 2007 audience may think about a biblical event that I refer to.

For example, I perform one effect where I talk about the miracles that Jesus performed. I was interested to see the survey on water to wine and the feeding of the 5,000. I also perform an effect regarding the resurrection. One of the links in the article I directed you to reports the percentages of belief in the resurrection.

I am also interested in what atheists and agnostics believe about these accounts. I'm still trying to figure out the statistic that states, "Only 8% of atheists and agnostics accept the story," when talking about Eve and the Serpent. Maybe Payne can fill us in.

Maybe someone else will be interested in the survey and maybe not, but I'm not sure this thread is any more uninteresting than "Who makes the best TT?" or "Choose: Corinda or Annemann."

Plus, I hadn't seen Payne around here for a while, and I figured this would get a rise out if him! Smile

Terry
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Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2007-12-18 23:44, RevJohn wrote:
This isn't meant as anything but a clarifying question.

I read your sentence, Payne, and I can't figure it out. I don't know if there is an extra word (I am guessing "that") or missing punctuation... I know it is a jab, and probably a humorous one, if I could make out the intent.

RevJohn


I have this strange feeling that he's saying at least a certain percentage of Americans aren't quite "enlightened." But I'm still wondering about that 8% atheist and agnostic population that the report speaks of. Maybe they are starting to follow Antony Flew's line of thinking.

Terry
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Dan Paulus
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[quote]On 2007-12-19 00:34, Payne wrote:
Quote:

I guess you'd have to be a Black Adder fan to get it.

"Tell me, Brother Baldrick, what exactly did God do to the Sodomites?"
"I dunno, but I can't imagine it was worse than what they used to do to each other."

It's funny how Jesus said he spoke in parables, yet others believe the "literal word" of the bible.
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Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 01:01, Terry Holley wrote:

But I'm still wondering about that 8% atheist and agnostic population that the report speaks of. Maybe they are starting to follow Antony Flew's line of thinking.



I'd wager it's a flaw in their data modeling. Atheists should be counted seperately from Agnostics as they are skewing the numbers. I can see where Agnostics might believe that some of the aforesaid mentioned Bible stories are true, however no self respecting Atheist would. There is simply no external data that proves any of them to be literally true. Especially the Old Testiment stuff with it's talking donkeys and impossible arks.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Terry Owens
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I'd wager there are some who are on the fence posts...publicly say one thing, but when given a chance to answer in private, may be searching for real truth. Not much hope when you're an atheist or agnostic...not much hope.

By the way, Barna research is a well respected research group and has customer such as Disney, Visa and many others. I tend to believe that they know what they're doing, having personally met Mr. Barna.
tboehnlein
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"It's funny how Jesus said he spoke in parables, yet others believe the "literal word" of the bible"
True, he did speak in parables, however they were clearly presented as object lessons not historical depictions. The events of the Bible are stated as fact & historical depictions. I found the survey interesting because to believe parts of the Bible but not others leaves your faith open to many questions, "hmm if I believe this part isn't true then what else isn't true". The faith that I have is not blind I believe in 100% of the truthfullnes of the bible & God's plan of salvation. I can not speak for others but I know that my faith has carried me through many vallies that I would have been lost in without it.
Dan Paulus
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 09:26, tboehnlein wrote:
The events of the Bible are stated as fact & historical depictions.


LOL!
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness. - Aristotle
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Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 06:03, Terry Owens wrote:
I'd wager there are some who are on the fence posts...publicly say one thing, but when given a chance to answer in private, may be searching for real truth. Not much hope when you're an atheist or agnostic...not much hope.

By the way, Barna research is a well respected research group and has customer such as Disney, Visa and many others. I tend to believe that they know what they're doing, having personally met Mr. Barna.


I would take this survey with a grain of salt. Atheists are still one of the most maligned minorities in the country. There are some regions in the nation where revealing ones non belief can lead to ostrization and physical threats. Therefor when confronted with questions of a religious nature many Atheists will claim a belief in a Deity to avoid possible confrontation. Thus the data on this survey may be skewed a bit. I know for certain if they had asked these same questions up here in the Pacific Northwest they would have gotten a very different result. Being one of the least religious parts of the country I know only a handful of people who regularly go to church or believe that much if any parts of the Bible are literally true.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 09:38, Dan Paulus wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-19 09:26, tboehnlein wrote:
The events of the Bible are stated as fact & historical depictions.


LOL!


Now, now be nice. He is after all right. The Bible states these events as fact and many people believe them to be true. Just as the ancient Greeks one time believed that Homer's Epic was factual history.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
tboehnlein
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Before you LOL may I suggest you do a bit more research on the subject, you will find that the Bible has more documented historical support then any other document written during its period.
Terry Owens
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Just a reminder, we need to follow Café' rules...The good part about the survey that Terry shared with us, it gives us some insight into who we are reaching out to in our programs.

Thanks for sharing Terry..
Steven Conner
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That reminds me of the work Bill Hybils does at Willow Creek in Chicago. The unchurched have much to learn.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-12-19 12:38, Steven Conner wrote:
That reminds me of the work Bill Hybils does at Willow Creek in Chicago. The unchurched have much to learn.


Or perhaps we have learned too much Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
tboehnlein
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"Or perhaps we have learned too much Smile"

or chose not to be open to that which does not meet your personal needs or lifestyle.

Payne not meant to be a personal attack, just MY observation of nonbelievers in general, your comments in this category are generally well meant & expressed honestly.
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