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MadUncleAndy
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Deep in the Heart of Darkest America
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Quote:
...my intentions can bug you all they like, I make no appologies.


They do...but as I've said from the get-go, the average punter like myself has *nothing* to go on in this whole mess except the flame wars of two men...both clearly more knowledgable than myself, and saying things which are incompatible with both of you being correct.

One thing I can say for you is that you are honest and open about your intent...which is better than if you weren't. If you spin up a set of duplicates to Mr. Riser's midis and then say "See, I told you I'd copy any of his new stuff in retaliation for past wrongs," then this is more honest than claiming it was a coincidence or some other. I just reread that paragraph and can see it's possible to reread it as being sarcastic...it's not meant to be.

Quote:
A very select few know the backburner to the whole subject of the transfer of RNT II and RNT was even worse, it was like a nightmare relived.


Precisely my point. Since it's difficult for us to discuss your case with Mr. Riser, perhaps it's best to use a different example, since my frustration is not solely about the feud between you two. How about the ethics of the PK ring? To my knowledge neither you nor he make them. How some item released in the future we don't even know about yet, which someone claims is a rip off of something they did? Your average punter is making a judgement based on who has the best P/R and marketing department, not based on experience, knowledge, or that most elusive of gems...fact.

Quote:
As a new user here, I would suspect that you have started some research over on the Genii board, that's a good start, but to form an opinion that holds any meaning or validity requires a lot more research on your part before you could even remotely conclude any type of opinion.


You are correct on what I've read. You are correct that there's no way that's enough to form a valid opinion...but I'd go further here, Jake...I'd say that the number of people who can form a valid opinion is probably small enough to count on the fingers of two hands.

Now, the problem is, people will form opinions...they cannot help but form opinions. The opinion may be "what the heck, I'll buy what I want and hang the ethics of it"...it may be "both of these guys are acting awfully badly, I'll not buy from either"...or they may side with one or another. But as you agree, the odds of the average punter's opinion being based on the sort of evidence with which one could scratch a window are between slim and nil. Neither you nor Mr. Riser can be considered "disinterested" parties; I'm sure you can agree with that.

Quote:
One thing I have is credibility, I have the documentation in hard copy, blue prints and enough if I released it publicly for all to read that would pretty much send a Tsunami through magic history that would be felt around the globe. Documentation and hard copy proof is the best credibility available, especially when it predates others works.


Unfortunately, though, unless you mean to send notorized copies to potential cup buyers everywhere, that really doesn't do much good in the absence of some sort of neutral arbitration body.

Quote:
Ask anyone that knows me, I don't take a beating or sit quietly when I'm being attacked and since the reference was made here to his new cups in addition to his new lies and vile attacks, it ended up here, I'm protecting the design.


You shouldn't need to. Jim Riser shouldn't need to. Nobody should. And the aggrieved in such disputes should have a better venue than the internet forums of the world in which to make your case.

Really, in the end, that is my point. There is, obviously, a concrete need for a way to put such things to bed, and as you have pointed out, the average Joe cannot form their opinions based on fact. I don't pretend to have a solution...just some wild brainstorming, but I do believe this thread and all the others like it are prima facie evidence of a need.
Mad Jake
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Life in general is too short to sweat the small things. But one has to admit, when your character,
ethics or attack on your family one will protect either to maintain balance and protect what you
hold as dear.

As to documentation, notorized copies are not even considered, all I would have to do is call
into evidence the archives of original invoices, paid reciepts, Fed & State ID #'s that match
the invoices on file to prove my point and case. One instance is the sale of the RNT II company
to us and a contract that was drawn up and exctuted at time of sale, a copy was provided to our vendors
and they in turn provided the copies to their attorneys for record. All attorneys said the contract
was indeed enough to protect them from any lawsuits arising from selling our products. While the selling
party claimed that the contracts were not presented as they were published, a quick call to the bank
where a copy of the excuted contract and record remains on their server for life proved that the company
was sold both with assets, assigned rights and debt it finally put a close to a lot of questions with
certain individuals who were duped by the seller of the company. In the meantime I & the company took
a beating, but again, because I had my facts, paperwork and story straight, the company prevailed.

Not but a few years ago, we were small, but I kept feeding the machine and now it runs me. I'm not being
dramatic, it's the simple truth. But it's my own fault as I let the battle turn into an obession.

This past month was a real !@#$%, talk about a series of lows. Personal issues arose, ie heating failure
in the ome heating system, but one thing struck home and made the Mad grown clown cry one day before Christmas.

I don't come off as a very warm person generally, maybe I've seen too much ugliness in short time I've
been alive, but everyone has a place in their heart that never really goes cold and can be rekindled.
My wife one night rescued a kitten from the road, he was a runt and sitting in the middle of the hwy. Marcy
stopped brought him home and held him out to me, from that moment he was like one of my children. I raised
Dorian from a kitten to a grown cat. We were indeed best friends, no matter where I went in the home or the shop
Dorian was there. When ever I sat down, no one ever saw us apart, he was always in my lap purring every minute
he could. About 3 weeks ago I was polishing, had taken a break, put out a cigarette and Dorian jumpled into my
lap. I picked him up and said "sorry buddy, too busy, not right now." Several hours later just after dark,
my daughter came running into the house, "Jake, Dorian was hit by a car." I went out and indeed it was Dorian,
my best friend was gone. I was fine at first until I remembered what my last words were to one of my best friends.
"sorry buddy, too busy not right now." It was like a knife through my heart, beacause for 5 years now after
being involved and restructuring this company I could not gather enough hands to count the times I have said
this to both my wife and children.

This even alone, has made me decide that RNT II has reached it's pinnacle in the history of magic and it's time
to wind down, I believe you have already seen on our site we will be cutting retail sales of the RNT II line. After
finishing up some projects for individuals I think I will go back to being a Chef in a nice little restaraunt
and try to maintain a controlable schedule. A lot have noticed that I have been selling off my collections, it's not
because I need the money now, it's because I became a slave to my possesions. But my most prized possessions are my
family, God gave us 4 healthy children, beautiful children and I would much rather be a slave to them than any material
goods. I never want to have to say to them again, "not now, I'm too busy". It is now time for me to refocus on
my family whom means more to me than any public recognition or collectible.

The reason for this story sums up to this. I worked hard to turn a failed company into something it was suppose to be
but it got away from me. This was never about how great Mad Jake was or me at all, it was about the company. And after
all the hard work and sacrifice by both myself and my family and friends even I will not go out or have the company go
out being slandered by the likes of Jim Riser, period. The Clown don't go out like that, nor will RNT II/SBL.

The very sad thing is it won't stop here with RNT II. Someone else will take tooling and start making cups, and Jim
will start attacking them, he's done it in the past with other craftsmen that have not even so much as done anything to
Jim, but create a beautiful product. This is what people are supporting, a person who is so vulgar and vile and thrives
on the attention that only he can be "The One".

A final closing remark about the "Clowns Pillar of Ethics". Marcella was offered 500,000.00 for the sale and production
rights and tooling of the company, this offer was turned down, not because of the offer amount, but because of who wanted
to buy it. With that money we could spend a few years just as a family, but the ethics will not allow the company's name
to fall into the production hands of someone that has no concern but to make a product cheaply and disgrace the names
of other fine craftsmen in the industry. The production rights may fall into the hands of someone else someday, or everything
might just stay with the family and be handed down generation after generation.

It was a great run, but you have to closeout sometime. I'm just glad I woke up in time to realize it. This has all now been put to bed.

Best,
Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
lint
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God bless you and your family Jake...Best of luck in this upcoming new year. I hope you will at least still be around occasionally to chat with. The kindness you have extended to me in the past and present with these silly cups that obsess us will never be forgotten! I hope everyone can gain a little insight as to what is important in life from your post. It certainly has been a good reminder for me.

-Todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Tarbell Magic
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It just so happens I sold my Riser Shorty recently and put the dough towards purchasing your Strolling SBL Chop Cup - a decision I'm very pleased with. Good luck with whatever you decide to do in the future, Jake!
Bill Palmer
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That story about Dorian brings a lot of it home to me. I know how we get attached to our animal companions. Some of you know how attached I am to my Schnauzers.

My dad worked his butt off for many years, going on the road every summer, touring with his musical ensemble. He played Carnegie Hall, worked the Pryor-Menz circuit, etc. Consequently, we didn't see him much when we were growing up.

He always regretted not being there, but he thought he was doing the right thing at the time.

During his last years, he was not able to work much, so he spent more time with us, and that time was golden.

Jake, even though I hate to see it go, you are doing the right thing with RnT II.

And who knows? Maybe one day, you will put those chucks back into the lathe and spin some more things.

I do understand how we become slaves to our possessions. I was burglarized in 1980, and some heroin addict (actual fact -- served a long term in a jail not far from here) and his girl friend broke into my apartment and stole one of my most prized banjos, my bullet catch props, a service for 12 of Francis I silverware with all the accoutrements, my Revox tape recorder, a new Sony television set, and lots of other pieces of property. This was when silver was at its peak in 1980.

I never got any of the stuff back, although we know where some of it went. However, because of this burglary and a few others similar to it, all the pawn shop regulations and precious metal smelting regulations in the City of Houston were changed so that people who sold this kind of thing to pawn shops and smelters were required to get proper ID from the seller and to hold the items for 30 days.

So, some good came out of the situation. I was able to eventually replace most of the stolen goods with equivalent pieces. I learned a lot about how the "wheels of justice" turn in Houston. And I'm basically exempt from serving on a jury for a criminal case in Houston. Am I cynical? Maybe. Am I better educated? Yes. Do I have a burglar alarm now? Dern right!

But I've already resigned myself to the fact that I am just a temporary custodian for these pieces, and once I'm gone, they will either be in the SAM Magic Center Museum, or if that isn't built, some other magic museum will become the beneficiary.

Jake:

Illigettimi non carborundum!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mad Jake
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Ich halte meinen Kopf herauf Höhe und schaue zum Lord, um mir die Klugheit und die Anleitung zu geben, die ich eine bessere Person sein muß jeden Tag. Danke, Sein zu berechnen solch ein guter Freund.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Tom Fenton
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I'll miss RNTII but all good things must come to an end and I am grateful for being able to own some of the great stuff that RNTII has produced.

More importantly, I am profoundly grateful for the friendship and help that Jake has given me.

All the best to you and your family Jake, hold your head high and don't let them grind you down.

Your friend,
Tom
"But there isn't a door"
MickeyPainless
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Jake and I were yakkin on the phone a couple weeks ago about Dorian, kids, work, life etc. and both agreed that Cat Stevens said it all in the song "Father and Son"!
I've always been self employed and there have been many school concerts, soccer games and bike races that I just didn't have time for. The next thing I knew my eldest son James was on his way to the Gulf and Andrew was applying to collages away from home! Both boys are home at the moment and I have done my best to spend quality time with them both! Life is short and we must prioritize to make the best of our time here especially with those we love!
Mick
walid ahumada
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Siempre con la frente en alto, y recuerda que cuando los perros ladran no te preocupes es señal que vamos avanzando.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
Mr. Muggle
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Jake's craftsmanship and customer service has always been top shelf - since its been verified numerous times now that RNT2 is winding down, I think its wise for a trip to their website before everything is double the price on eBay! Smile
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
scottjenkins
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Hi Jake,
Hope the New Year is going well for you. Although you say you're not a warm guy, I've had nothing but pleasant conversations with you. Your product is always great and the service is fantastic. Bottom line: I can't think of anyone I'd rather buy from, even with the random German prayer that I had to go to Google to find out what the heck you were talking about.
Scott Jenkins
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Joe Porper's partner!
Pete Biro
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I am speechless.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Mr. Muggle
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Good news...Jim did the right thing and updated his site - the personal attacks against Jake have been removed.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2007-12-30 14:13, Mad Jake wrote:
Ich halte meinen Kopf herauf Höhe und schaue zum Lord, um mir die Klugheit und die Anleitung zu geben, die ich eine bessere Person sein muß jeden Tag. Danke, Sein zu berechnen solch ein guter Freund.

Jake


Thanks, Jake.

That means a lot.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Jonathan Townsend
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Very little German on this side - I got as far as:

? I ask the Lord to give me the wisdom to understand... (my friend?)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pete Biro
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As we used to say in the Army, while stationed in Germany... "Nix Furstain" Followed closely by, "The Hundt is loss, and Mox Nix."
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2008-01-06 22:20, Mr. Muggle wrote:
Good news...Jim did the right thing and updated his site - the personal attacks against Jake have been removed.


Jim updated his site, but we lost a lot of good c&b info as well as photos.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Mr. Muggle
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Because it's not 'online' doesn't mean the information is lost.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Chessmann
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I thought the jist was "we lost" rather than "Mr. Riser lost"
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Mad Jake
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See Jim in now planning a new Coins Across, I guess Johnathan contracted him for this? So I see Jim pulled the selecting the cups and balls. Is this move to punish everyone for him using a design that Rings N Things implemented those sorry excuses for recesses in the bottom of sugar shakers or whatever they are.

The reason the community is at a loss for the cup selection section is again Mr. Riser takes on the fact that I am it at fault. Well if I am again, no appologies as I'm protecting our company's design.

I haven't seen Johnathan say anything about Jim's coins accross to be made, so I'm assuming that he has John's blessings to making his effect.

Riser won't change and either will I.
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
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