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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Believe it or not... » » Swallowing needles & razor blades (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Danny Borneo
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I really hope that it didn't get deleted because I was expressing an opinion on a product.

Basically I had said that I found this part of the description very interesting.

"Unlike more recent Pro Line products, you are buying only a license (i.e. legal permission) to perform Scott's masterpiece. We include the props as a bonus."

Considering that this item doesn't even have a demo video and that there are some very slick explanations as to why they can't post a demo of it.

I want to clarify that I really do think that Scott is an awesome performer and great thinker. I loved his Midnight Show DVD, but how can anyone be expected to shell out that kind of cash sight unseen? Very reminiscent of the whole Paul Harris "Little Man" debacle.
BAGWIZ
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Hmmmm. Maybe someone can create an effect with a little clay man who swallows razor blades ....
MagicbyCarlo
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Quote:
On 2010-05-30 23:03, Stucky wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-30 02:33, MagicbyCarlo wrote:
I did razor blades in my show for a long time an used a combination of methods for load and ditch from a few different sources. It was mentioned though in a discussion I remember, that razor blades threaded together really made little sense; but needles on thread were a logical progression.

To be fair, producing doves and candles or hammering a spike in your face and all of the other weirdness performers do doesn't make sense either to a lot of people. We do have some leeway to be eccentric.

I tend to agree, Stucky. No one in my audience ever openly questioned "why razor blades?". I just thought the perspective on the preference for needles was an interesting and sensible one.
I prefer blades myself because I think they seem more dangerous which is what I'm looking for in this type effect.
Carlo DeBlasio
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MagicbyCarlo
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Quote:
On 2010-05-31 10:08, Danny Borneo wrote:
I really hope that it didn't get deleted because I was expressing an opinion on a product.

Basically I had said that I found this part of the description very interesting.

"Unlike more recent Pro Line products, you are buying only a license (i.e. legal permission) to perform Scott's masterpiece. We include the props as a bonus."

Considering that this item doesn't even have a demo video and that there are some very slick explanations as to why they can't post a demo of it.

I want to clarify that I really do think that Scott is an awesome performer and great thinker. I loved his Midnight Show DVD, but how can anyone be expected to shell out that kind of cash sight unseen? Very reminiscent of the whole Paul Harris "Little Man" debacle.

I think speculating on this "demo" issue is a bit moot. Would the routine be worth the $800 if there were a slick demo?
I think Bob Kohler is clear on this in his explaination and I'm sure that there is a balance of financial and artistic protective motives here. I don't take issue with any of that.
As a consumer, you have a choice, and if you're not comfortable with the advertising, terms of use, etc. then you should steer away from the product and find something within your comfort zone.

On items like this I would love to see a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee OR since you are "paying for the routine" an option to buy the method and gimmick without the routine; but let's face it, you're buying a package and the gimmick, handling and routine are all integral. The idea that you're "only paying for the routine" and that it "protects" you from exposure is marketing strategy, nothing more.
I'm a fan of Scott and Bob's releases, but I will wait on this until more information/reviews are out. An item like this is a R.O.I. item and I want to know that this will become a regular part of my performing repertoire before purchasing.
Carlo DeBlasio
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thegreatnippulini
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Carlo, I can sell you a blockhead routine for under $500. Included will be a manual, DVD, a free stainless steel specialized blockheading nail, and online support.
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
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Roslyn
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I guess the effect is the same as all blade swallowing acts, the blades go in followed by thread and then they come out tied to the thread.

In a way Bob and Scott are doing something different in that they are not selling an effect, you are paying for the routine. The patter, jokes etc...

I suppose its almost as though you're buying a mini play or the same as a comedian pays writers to create material for them. The method, unlike other tricks out there, is not what they are selling.

At first I agreed with Danny about the demo video, then I thought that if the effect is the same as every other blades routine the demo would look the same as every other blades routine.

If its the patter, jokes and general routining that you're buying then that wouldn't be shown on a promo. If it was, then you wouldn't have to pay the cash for it, just watch the demo.

I guess that's why you're not to perform it on TV or the web. As soon as someone does the product becomes worthless.

So if Scott's style fits your style then his routine will possibly work for you. But if Scott's style isn't the same as yours his jokes and patter lines probably won't work for you.

Personally I prefer to write my own stuff. Yes a lot of it fails. But the stuff that works is 100% mine and something I can build on. I enjoy trying the new stuff out. So for me buying a ready made routine is not for me. But for some it could be the perfect answer.
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Danny Borneo
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I don't know, to say that you appreciate Scott's style is a bit nebulous. To purchase something at such a high price completely sight or patter unseen doesn't make to much sense to me. While you may agree with his style or feel it fits you, who is to say that individual lines or parts of the routine will work as you said, and at the point what are you really buying if you're throwing away bits of what you are purchasing.

Having someone write material for you is a bit different since you are paying someone to write custom fit stuff for you and you have the option of saying well that won't work for me or that will. Basically working with the writer.

I totally understand why there is no demo video, I guess it was more of a jab at the typical comment from most Café posters (outside of this section).

Keep in mind that Scott has produced several high ticket routines in the past that didn't come with the stringent stipulations involved with this one. Maybe this is him learning that maybe that wasn't the best practice in the past, not really sure. I just think there are several other types of things that I could spend that type of cash on.

I guess it all comes down to whether this type of purchase works for someone. In my case, doesn't work for me.
Roslyn
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I agree Danny, it is different to paying someone to write for you. I was just trying to figure out what it was you were buying. And I guess it's the script.

I suppose it's similar to having someone design a website for you or paying for a template.

I also agree that buying anything site unseen is a bit daft. But then, if you already saw the routine what reason do you have to buy it? Usually the method is the reason for purchase, but if lines and jokes are what you're buying I can't see how you could show what it is and still keep it's value.

Bob and Scott are definitely treading on new ground with reguards to how they are selling this product. Is this the sign of things to come? Maybe things are just too exposed and if this starts a trend in keeping secrets secret it may well be a good thing for the magic community as a whole.

Either way, I won't be buying a product like this... But then who knows if in future the right routine comes along maybe I will.
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Kondini
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To sum this all up,,,,There`s a sucker born every minet.
RiffRaff
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Slightly off topic:
Is there any advantage to using straws rather than paper/card to prove that the blades are sharp?
Roslyn
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If all you're doing is cutting stuff then I imagine sheets of paper being more visual.

Why not give the blade to a spec and you hold the paper? Let them go to town slashing away!!!
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Harley Newman
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Hmmm.

Cut and restored paper dolls. Blades do the cutting. As you cut a doll, you eat a blade.

When the blades are all gone, restore the dolls into paper, in your mouth. Or at least into a disgusting pile of gooey paper.

Then you need to floss. Etc.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

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MagiciennesUnlimited
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Bizzaro does a cut and restored 'out to lunch' sign with his razor blades.

It's pretty nifty.
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Rotten
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I recently saw the routine. I didn't see all that much patter but what I did see was an ingenious handling of the props. Not sure I would be happy if I had paid 800 bucks for it but it is clever and simple at the time.
RiffRaff
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Thanks Roslyn. Any other opinions regarding straw vs. paper?
Harley Newman
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Let's draw straws!
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

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MagicbyCarlo
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Quote:
On 2010-06-01 08:11, thegreatnippulini wrote:
Carlo, I can sell you a blockhead routine for under $500. Included will be a manual, DVD, a free stainless steel specialized blockheading nail, and online support.

Not sure what your point is or why you directed your snarky remark toward me? I'm neither defending nor criticizing the price or value of "The Blades".
As I said for me, a purchase is related to the ROI (Return On Investment). If you don't see the value in a product, don't buy it. I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini, it doesn't mean that I'm going to rail over how ridiculous it is to spend $200,000 on a car and that I don't see how it worth it etc... Again, what's the point?
I don't know, thegreatnippulini, maybe your blockhead routine is awesome and would command such a price? I'm not familiar with your work so I don't know, but I can guess that if you had a "Human Blockhead" routine worth $500 you would be in marketing discussions with Bob Kohler as we speak.
I do know that a great deal Scott's material has met that commercial mark; this was a marketing and commercial decision that Scott made, if you're annoyed that he isn't spilling the guts of his work on DVD for $29.99; I guess that's your prerogative.
It sometimes seems as if the loudest whining and complaining over price and value on the Café appears to be driven by the grief and the desire to own but the inability to afford. Personally I think $800 is a lot of money for a single routine; but so is $1800 for a single illusion (Losander Table). For 5 years I used a Losander table in every show I performed (about 500 shows). That comes to about $3.60 a show. So was it worth it? Well, for me, yes.
Let's say you buy Scott's routine for $800 and use it in 500 shows that comes to $1.60 a show. I don't know if the routine is any good, but let's just suppose that it is (for the sake of this discussion). Would you spend $1.60 a show to add a six minute routine that is audience tested entertaining, strong magic?
Now I agree that supposing that Scott's routine meets that criteria, sight unseen is a leap of faith, and perhaps one you or I may not be willing to take, but to get all undybunched is just a waste of time and energy. Relax; wait until some reviews roll in and then make an informed decision or perhaps just decide this isn't an investment for you. Either way, all the hand wringing and complaining over price and restrictions is futile. At the moment $800 is the price for "The Blades" along with all of it's restrictions and secrecy; and that is that.
Carlo DeBlasio
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thegreatnippulini
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Ew. Carlo, it was a joke at no ones expense. You need to relax. Have a drink.... if you're in recovery might I suggest a nice cup of chamomille tea? If you can't laugh at the little things in life maybe you shouldn't join the party.
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
http://www.greatnippulini.com
dave_matkin
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Camomille!!!!

No sir you should go for a nice Earl Gray! And it should be in a bone china cup preferably with a nice union flag on it. And don’t forget to warm the pot first!

Ha Americans you have no idea!

Now I need to go and do some work, you know its only 2 and a half hours until afternoon tea – may be you will join me in a nice cup of tea and a scone (that’s pronounced sc-on just so you know).
Doctor Mythsonian
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Quote:
On 2010-06-04 08:40, dave_matkin wrote:
...And don’t forget to warm the pot first!

Ha Americans you have no idea!



I'd like very warm pot, please... Smile
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