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Wahooka
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This Card College series is supposed to be the best book on card tricks and sleight of hand, but I'm finding it to be really impractical. I often follow the exact hand positions and moves that he suggests, and I end up in situations where I can't perform the sleight at all... I find his diagrams are sometimes unhelpful and don't make sense...

Then I will just go to youtube.com and see some amateur magician perform the move, and it will make sense and is much simpler...

I'm not suggesting you can learn card magic off of youtube.com, but I think this Card College book is confusing...

Does anyone agree with me on this?

Wahooka
jcards01
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I think Card College is excellent, but it also helps if you have someone to go to and make sure you are doing it correctly.

Since R. Paul Wilson came out with the DVD's on Royal Road, I think the better way to start would be to have the book and DVD set for Royal Road.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
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sethb
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Some people learn better from books, others learn better from DVDs. When I started learning magic, the only choice was books. There was no such thing as a videotape or DVD.

Now I believe that for learning card or coin sleights, DVD is probably the best way to go because, as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words." But if you are trying to learn a full routine or study magic theory, then books are usually a better (and more economical) way to go.

I also agree that the "Royal Road to Card Magic" DVD would be a good choice, click HERE for more info. Good Luck and welcome to the Café'! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Father Photius
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As sethb pointed out, some people are better visual learners and video or IRL demonstration works best for them. Others find the book easier to use. I have to admit learning to learn from books can be frustrating, but videos didn't exist in my early years and I had to learn to learn from books. While there is no video yet for the Card College series as there is for Royal Road, you can get some visual help with the sleights by using a video series such as Daryl's Complete Encyclopedia of Card Sleights, Royal Road, or any number of other introductory through advanced card sleight video series out there.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
gaddy
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Patience and practice.
patience and practice.
patience and practice.

Sorry, that's all I can suggest. Card College is "state of the art" as far as card magic instruction goes. There is nothing better, short of taking lessons from a professional who is also a good teacher (and the two do not always go hand in hand, either...).

If you already have Card College, don't bother with Royal Road, unless you can get it cheap. It was the standard for years, but now there is something better, and it's called Card College.

Maybe the Royal Road video might help to clarify things for you...

Good luck to you, keep with it, and you'll get it eventually!

G
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Wahooka
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Thanks for the advice... I'll check out the Royal Road video...

I have Daryl's Video of Card Sleights, volume 1... It is very interesting, but the video series is more of an effort to classify every major move ever done. The problem with that is that he focuses on quantity, and literally goes so fast and furious describing each technique that you never get a chance to really perfect any one idea.

I'm assuming the way that people learnt magic in the old days was on the street...they would get trained by someone who was already a master... At least we have video now!

Wahooka
gaddy
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Video is cool, but be careful... When I learn tricks off video, I have a bad habit of cloning the actions and presentation of the performer teaching the video. That's not a good thing, not at all...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Wahooka
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Do you wear that funny hat, too? Smile

At this point, I just want to learn a card trick! Right now, I can do the glide and perform a few finger breaks... The video doesn't teach you any tricks, so it's a bit frustrating...

If I could have the presentation of Daryl the Magician, I would be happy... He is very smooth and entertaining.
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2008-01-02 16:01, photius wrote:
While there is no video yet for the Card College series

Not quite true, as this link will show...
http://www.lybrary.com/magic-cards-c-21_......&sort=2a
Cardamagically,
Dom
:) Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

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Magnus Eisengrim
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As boring as this is going to sound, you don't need to buy more things. You really do need to practice, practice, practice. No amount of video viewing will do for your sleight of hand what hours of practice will do. Don't be frustrated. Even something as seemingly simple as a tidy and well controlled shuffle takes time.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Wahooka
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Practice... Yes! But practice the correct things... If you can't figure out from a book diagram what the correct position is to perform a certain move, or what the correct placement of the fingers is, etc...then no amount of practice will help. Do you agree?

Wahooka
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-01-04 18:08, Wahooka wrote:
Do you agree?


No, I don't. I often have to try many new positions to get things working. Sometimes I get very frustrated, and sometimes I learn things I didn't expect to learn. Sometimes I do have to go talk to somebody to set one or two small things straight.

For example, I have been working on my tabled faro since last April. It is still not ready to use in front of an audience. But, oh, the things I am learning...

Remember, we're not learning cardiac surgery, we are manipulating cards. The consequences of stumbling our way through are very slight.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balic2003
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Card College is so well in describing all movements that I think nobody would have problems to understand. But like KRZ4kardz gave the link, there is an ebook of Card College with videos. I have them, and they are good.
Wahooka
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Okay, I will work through Card College some more, and when I come across something that doesn't work or make sense, I will definitely post more messages...

And yes, Magnus, I'm glad this isn't surgery, because my patient would be dead! Smile

Wahooka
Jaz
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If you understand what is supposed to happen, and
imagine what it should look like, then you're half way home.

Nothing worthwhile comes easy.

Visit Denis Behr's site and watch him work.
http://www.denisbehr.de/
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-01-05 12:35, Wahooka wrote:
Okay, I will work through Card College some more, and when I come across something that doesn't work or make sense, I will definitely post more messages...

And yes, Magnus, I'm glad this isn't surgery, because my patient would be dead! Smile

Wahooka


Excellent! I hope the little gains inspire you to make the big ones.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Jake Austin
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Wahooka,

I agree with you. You want to practice the move perfectly. Michael Ammar writes:

"Practice, in fact, does NOT make perfect - but it does make PERMANENT. Your every practice will lock those techniques more firmly into your psyche, but what if you didn't understand what you were practicing in the first place? Over and over you would be mastering the wrong things!

So if practice makes permanent, what makes perfect? Perfect practice. Perfect practice makes perfect. Before the first practice takes place, you must know what you are doing, and why you are doing it that way. Once these very important first steps have been taken, it then makes sense to maximize every second of your rehearsal time." The Magic of Michael Ammar Page 84

If you practice incorrect technique you risk making that incorrect technique permanent. You will then have to take time to unlearn that technique later.

Keep in mind that I am not giving a blanket endorsement of DVDs over books. You can learn improper technique from DVDs as well as books. In fact, books often provide the small details that make a move perfect that are left out on DVDs. What I am endorsing is perfect practice.

For the record I recommend books in conjunction with DVDs as the second best way to learn (the first is learning first hand from a teacher). I also whole heartedly recommend Card College.

Jake
President S.A.M Assembly 170, Colorado Springs
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gaddy
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Quote:
On 2008-01-06 12:25, carolinahusker wrote:
Wahooka,
Keep in mind that I am not giving a blanket endorsement of DVDs over books. You can learn improper technique from DVDs as well as books. In fact, books often provide the small details that make a move perfect that are left out on DVDs. What I am endorsing is perfect practice.

Jake


So true... I learned Daryl's "Cross of Egypt" coin trick from Ammar's EMMM series, and his handling was simply NOT working for me- I was getting burned about 20% of the time, despite a flawless execution.

UNACCEPTABLE!

After getting Joe Pon @ Misdirections Magic Shop to critique my performance, he suggested not doing the 1 beat pause between the reveals (something that Ammar says on the DVD is essential!) and that made all the difference. Now it's a standard trick in my Rep, and I never get burned...

DVD's can cause you to be very self-limiting.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
engineer_star
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I too, have this frustration at times with books. That is why I purposely bought Royal Road to Card Magic DVD set. What I have learned over the years is that people are "WIRED" differently when it comes to brain use. I know people that can download instructions on car repair and fix their car in minutes. I have a friend like that! However, he is terrible at expaining stuff and hard-headed...you can't tell him anything. He LEARNS BEST BY BOOK. I, on the other hand, learn by WATCHING a million times faster than by book. The way my mind works is once I see something, it becomes a million times easier to do. I get the impression that "magicians" frown on those who learn best by dvd/video...almost as if we are cheating/taking easy way out. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just our "WIREING".
I would greatly encourage you to try a few DVD's. I mentioned one already. I also love Gregory Wilson's DVD on Double Lifts. There is sooooooo much there.I've been very pleased with some of the Ellusionist Card DVD's also.
Sam
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-01-06 12:25, carolinahusker wrote:
Wahooka,

I agree with you. You want to practice the move perfectly. Michael Ammar writes:

"Practice, in fact, does NOT make perfect - but it does make PERMANENT. Your every practice will lock those techniques more firmly into your psyche, but what if you didn't understand what you were practicing in the first place? Over and over you would be mastering the wrong things!

So if practice makes permanent, what makes perfect? Perfect practice. Perfect practice makes perfect. Before the first practice takes place, you must know what you are doing, and why you are doing it that way. Once these very important first steps have been taken, it then makes sense to maximize every second of your rehearsal time." The Magic of Michael Ammar Page 84

If you practice incorrect technique you risk making that incorrect technique permanent. You will then have to take time to unlearn that technique later.



I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I think that it is in general false. I was listening to my daughter practicing the piano, and I realized that there is no way in the world she could live up to Ammar's ideal. The reason is simple: she is doing something far to difficult to practice "correctly" from the beginning. The ONLY way she can learn a new and difficult piece is to start where she is, work as nearly as she can to correctly, then slowly (with the help of a teacher, to be sure)improve the piece bit by bit. It is not a simple or a quick process. She must practice the piece incorrectly at first, othewise she could not practice at all.

A more experienced musician can self-correct, even on new and unfamiliar pieces.

Something like this must be true of magic as well. Difficult sleights cannot be practiced "perfectly" at first. You have to get them wrong, look at what is wrong, examine yourself in a mirror or on video and make corrections. A more experienced magician will certainly help.

Of course, none of what I'm saying has anything to do with whether Wahooka needs to spend more money on instructional videos. But it does question the notion that he needs "perfect practice".

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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