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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The March 2003 entrée: Randy Wakeman » » Videos, Videos, Videos (Randy) » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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debaser
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Randy, Ive been thinking about this for a bit and your wonderful job of hosting (sincerely, your doing a great pro-active job) inspired me to pose this idea.

There is obviously alot of debate over video/books. My idea is that you could put out a book and then put out 1 video for that book that contains demos of all the tricks in your book with no explanations. That way people could gain the benefit of seeing the routines in action, timing, pacing, etc.. And then go to the book for explanations were they could get all the details. Maybe at best at the end of the tape have some of the more complicated slieghts taught (as opposed to three pages of words to describe a straightforward move).

Being one of the pioneers of magic video I was wondering what your thoughts on this were.

thanks

Matt
leefoley3
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Matt, I,too,am curious what Randy's take on this will be. I think it is a very good idea!! I am certainly tired of the book vs. video debate. Take care,
Lee.
In December of '06 I was diagnosed with a very rare cancer, Dermatofibrosarcoma Protuberans. One in a million people worldwide are diagnosed with this type of cancer annually. Sarcomas account for 1% of all cancers. Knowledge is power!
RandyWakeman
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Personally, I think it is a great idea. It has already been done to a small degree-- I believe Gary Ouellet did it, and also M. Yedid with a Mike Gallo release.

Neither project met with much acclaim, however. More recently, Steve Draun has put together CD's containing RealVideo clips that are available now along with his book, "Secrets Draun from the Underground."

The comments about Steve's optional CD have been favorable, yet there seems to be little cry for more of the same.

It seems there are those who are video oriented, and are not enthused about books. Apparently, not enthused enough to have to buy a book along with the video.

Flipside, those who enjoy books do not seem to need video elaboration-- or, care to pay nothing for it. Dealers (apparently) would rather sell both items, perhaps with the videos containing material from the books.

Another consideration is practicality. Can you imagine how many videos even "demonstrations only" of the all the material on just one volume of Card College would consume? Bobo's? The Bro. John Hammon book?

So, while I think it is a great idea-- it just never has seemed to catch on for some reason.
MField2000
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I'll chime in on this.

There are two issues here. The first is that magicians have a limited budget, and buying a book and a video adds something (50% - 100%) to the cost of the material.

Which leads us to the second issue -- secrets. Most magicians only want to learn secrets, and they get that from the book or the video -- they don't need both. That's one reason performance-only videos have never proven popular.

It is a sad fact of magical life that most people who buy magic books don't really read them, and certainly don't work through the tricks. Same with videos -- they're watched like TV shows.

I'm not making a value judgement here -- hey, once people purchase something they can do whatever they like with it. But the book/video combination is not commercially viable.

Lybrary.com is trying to combine e-books with embedded videos. They've done this with "Card College," and we'll see how successful they are with the project.

Matt Field
Tom Gaddis
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Randy

For someone who praises the Ron Bauer Private Studies Series, I'm surprised that you are not aware that when each book is released, a series of video clips are put up on the website showing only the moves, with no explanation. The idea is to help the student interpret the technique.

(Just between you and I, while not delibrately exsposing the move, RB angles whatever break, etc. toward the camera to help the student out.)

Each of these videos is loopable. They last a few seconds and can be set to repeat for better study.

P.S.
They're free.

Tom
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RandyWakeman
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Yes, Tom,

I am well aware of that . . . but, that was not the question. The question concerned a packaged combination release of both performance-only video and book.
debaser
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I think there could possibly be some rebound money made on books, given the fact of video copying. If people are getting copies of the tape and the material is good this might posses them to go out and get the book and learn the routine.

I know this is probably a pipe dream idea, but i guess I would buy the video before the book (depending on the performer) to see how the material holds up. Other than witnessing the routines the only thing you have to go on when buying a book is other peoples words.

Its kinda like napster i guess, in my mind, for myself, if the music is good i will buy the product.

I also wish there was just more ways to view magic by professionals. I don't really care if there is a book, I just want to witness more magic.

Matt
RBauer
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Matt Field understands the problems of investing in such a thing...

Does Randy?
Ron Bauer
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RandyWakeman
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Yes. Having produced in both mediums several times, I well should.
debaser
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Mr. Bauer, investments aside, do you personally like the idea of performance only video.

I have to admit that the person that first suggested this idea to me when i was about 16 was Don Englund. He was just getting back into magic and when he proposed this idea to me I said hmmm (but thought "what good would that do. But when Don speaks a wise 16 year old listens and I did and then thought about it for ten more years.

So we all understand it isn't viable, but would you like to see it.

Matt
Jonathan Townsend
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Video can be useful in getting a routine recorded, then described. What blocks this from being the preferred process for blocking, recording and transcribing works?

If this were the process, an CD with the AVI file could be added to the printed work and add show to the tell.

?? puzzled -Jonathan
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RandyWakeman
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Jonathan,

I'm not sure I understand your question. Steve Draun, for example, has made a CD available (realmedia files) to augment his book at nominal cost.

There are instructional books and tapes available on most any topic you can think of-- the combination of book/video shrinkwrapped together has never caught fire.

Perhaps because book lovers have no particular need for video, or will not pay anything additional for it.

Those who prefer video seem not to be satisfied with "performance only," and would prefer all the instruction be self-contained in one place.
cgscpa
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I have two titles from Camirand Academy of Magic, Inc. where the published books has a "Companion Video" than can be purchased with it.

The two titles I am familiar with are "DeSouza's DeCeptions, the Magic of Marc Desouza" and "The Complete Boris Wild Marked Deck".

Quoting from the DeSouza Video "...this is designed to add depth to the printed page by giving students a sense of how the material translates in the real world. You will also learn the proper timing for each sleight and routine, and tips on spectator management that will help you increase the impact of every magical moment."

The video added about $20 to the cost of the book. I am mainly a "book guy" but I liked the DeSouza video because it does show some of the more difficult sleights separate from the performance. For those with more experience, the video may not be necessary unless one wanted to watch Mr. DeSouza perform. The Boris Wild video is a performance video. This is a great book but IMO the tape was not necessary expect if one wants to watch a performance. Everything one wants to learn is in Mr. Wild's fine book. My only complaint about the Wild video is the liberal use of canned applause which I found distracting especially if it is to be a "real world" performance video.

Cost is a factor so I am glad that one is not required to buy the tape to have the book. I also feel it can help the book teach the more difficult sleights because it does give a visual check. But bottom line to me is that it is a luxury, not a necessity so I would evaluate how much teaching value the tape would add to the book before purchasing the tape or if the performer is someone I would not mind paying an extra $20 to perform.

Courtney Springirth
RandyWakeman
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Quote:
On 2003-03-07 05:59, cgscpa wrote:
<snip>not a necessity so I would evaluate how much teaching value the tape would add to the book before purchasing the tape or if the performer is someone I would not mind paying an extra $20 to perform.

Courtney Springirth


And how is that easily done?
cgscpa
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[quote]On 2003-03-07 06:07, RandyWakeman wrote:
Quote:
And how is that easily done?


Not very, unless the tape is of a performer I really want to see then I would plunk down the extra cost. In an ideal world, and now that I have watched two "Companion Videos" and are familiar with what they are, I would purchase the book first and if the book was great but if I needed a little help with the more difficult sleights (and couldn't get it from a magic buddy or find adequate help in another book) I would then consider the tape. In the Boris Wild example, I really didn't need the tape, but didn't know it until after I read the book.

Courtney Springirth
RBauer
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Quote:
On 2003-03-06 23:33, JonTown wrote:
Video can be useful in getting a routine recorded, then described. What blocks this from being the preferred process for blocking, recording and transcribing works?

If this were the process, an CD with the AVI file could be added to the printed work and add show to the tell.

?? puzzled -Jonathan


Jonathon... It seems likely that most of those of you who are discussing this haven't been to my website http://www.thinklikeaconjurer.com
to see what I mean by "clips" to help a student interpret certain handling. These clips don't teach the move. The idea is to have a reference more dynamic that just words and line art to supplement the books. These clips are short, and can be looped so the student can see the actions repeated whatever number of times needed.

In some cases, people taking a look at them and not having read the books, will become interested enough in the technique to buy that particular book! That would be nice.

As far as performance only videos are concerned... I don't care. I'm all for anyone communicating anything they want, and if someone's interested. Fine.

My video clips are simply additional annotations for my "annotated performance scripts" for purposes of clarity and correct interpretation.

And, Randy, you missed the point again by replying that you work in "both mediums." Good for you.
Ron Bauer
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RandyWakeman
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When the book and tape are released as two separately available items . . . we are back to a book sale, and a video sale. No longer a "package."

If the book alone cannot adequately teach, I think we have a book issue (or a reading issue) more than anything else. Books taught long and well prior to the proliferation of home video.
cgscpa
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Quote:
On 2003-03-07 06:40, RandyWakeman wrote:

If the book alone cannot adequately teach, I think we have a book issue (or a reading issue) more than anything else. Books taught long and well prior to the proliferation of home video.


Very good point. I came back into Magic about two years ago and the biggest change since I was a kid was the proliferation of magic videos. I thought that was the way to re-learn. It didn't take long to realize the value of purchasing a good magic book with the occasional purchase of a video/DVD if the equivalent book was not available.

I don't know how well the "package" concept is now doing but I think there are many coming into magic (cost aside) that would like both. If only because the VCR and DVD has changed the way people learn.

But there is alot to say about learning with a good book, a deck of cards and a mirror.

For me, I do need the occassional video peak to at least confirm what I am learning is correct. Maybe it's a learning issue.

Courtney Springirth
RBauer
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Wow! There sure a lot of trees out here, but where the hell is that forest???

Randy, are you looking for anything? Is there a point here? Anytime the discussion begins to focus on how the "magic community" might make some progress in winning over the public, you (in particular) muddle the issue.

Now, for example, you are directing the discussion into... What?: "When the book and tape are released as two separately available items . . . we are back to a book sale, and a video sale. No longer a "package."

"If the book alone cannot adequately teach, I think we have a book issue (or a reading issue) more than anything else. Books taught long and well prior to the proliferation of home video."

So, what should one do? Just stick with books? What about your videos? Should we not bother with them? Can you stick to any viewpoint so the can be some clarity? Jeeze!
Ron Bauer
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Randy
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I don't see how the video clips on the Think Like a Conjuror site relate to the question or Randy's response. The question was regarding full performances of the routines in a book, not 5 second clips of exposed views of techniques.
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The March 2003 entrée: Randy Wakeman » » Videos, Videos, Videos (Randy) » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
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