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Angio333 Regular user 130 Posts |
I am still very new to magic. Right now, I mainly know "packet tricks" such as Third Degree Burn, Self Tying Shoelaces, Healed & Sealed, etc.
I am trying to decide if my next pursuit should be sponge balls or cups & balls. I have absolutely no experience with slieght of hand. I enjoy watching cups & balls routines more than sponge ball routines, but I enjoy watching the sponge ball routines too. Which one would you reccomend for a beginner? Thanks.
- C
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vpatanio Special user 515 Posts |
Is price a factor?
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vpatanio Special user 515 Posts |
Also if you have (or purchace) Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic, you can try both and then see which one you like to perform better (plus for less than $5.00, you can buy sponge balls)
I love them both and would never part with either. -Vinny |
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Angio333 Regular user 130 Posts |
I was considering a $30 Cups and Balls DVD with a set of three metal cups and balls (Ammar I believe) or a $30 Sponge Ball DVD with a set of sponge balls.
- C
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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
Personally, I would go with cups and balls. It is my favorite effect! Ammar's DVDs are definitely the way to go to learn cups and balls. You might also want to buy a chop cup because it uses less sleight of hand but produces a similar effecct. The chop cup is NOT taught on Ammar's DVDs. For the chop cup, I suggest buying Don Alan's chop cup booklet by Ron Bauer or WGMWGM chop cup DVD, which has many magicians performing and explaining the chop cup.
Head over to "Ever So Sleightly" for more information on cups and balls, chop cup, and sponge balls. |
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Mustang Veteran user London, England 316 Posts |
Sponge balls are an excellent way to go... commercially speaking and in terms of developing some sleight of hand they are great because they compress so well. However, Cups and Balls cover every branch of magic - Fitzkee gives a list of 12 or so categories that magic can be split into. Every single trick can be classed as either an appearance, a disappearance, a transformation, a levitation etc. what the magician levitates or vanishes is the only difference and the cup's and balls short of a levitation will give you most of these effects including all of the basic sleights needed to do them. It will teach you to vanish, produce, load, steal, retain, transform and so on, all within the platform of doing a simple trick with some cups and balls.
In conclusion, I'd suggest the cups and balls as it would give you a much rounder view of moves and techniques which are transferable to other aspects/areas of magic, whilst allowing you to develop entertaining presentations.
"A magician is one who appreciates the difference between knowing how a trick is done, and knowing how to do a trick."
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
I would start to get away from packet tricks - in fact all tricks that you buy as stand alone tricks.
it is time to get the basics right. The Wilson book is an excellent start. Read also the following. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=41&35 Good luck Andy
Cards never lie
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Mustang Veteran user London, England 316 Posts |
Andy, I think in his statement that he wants to start doing sponge balls or cups and balls he implied he is trying to get away from packet tricks and simply wanted to know which of the two pursuits we would recommend.
"A magician is one who appreciates the difference between knowing how a trick is done, and knowing how to do a trick."
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
It is a toss up. Sponge balls are cheaper, and have a considerable versitality. They types of sleights are pretty simple. Cups and Balls is a very old classic. There are many,many routines involveing many of the same sleights of sponge ball use. In the long run there are longer and more cups and balls routines than sponge ball routines. If you get the Ammar video, you are getting a real education in magic with it. But it is still just your call. Many of us do both, and I can't say learning one before the other gives you any particular advantage.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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Billgussen Elite user Central Japan 497 Posts |
Personally, I'd go with sponge balls to start out.
And don't bother with a $30 DVD. Get Pat Page's DVD on the subject which contains all of the basics you will want to know on sponge balls. (Secret Seminars of Magic with Patrick Page, Volume 5. It's only a little over $10.) Pat Page's DVD also includes a Benson Bowl routine which is pretty much Cups and Balls but with a large "cup" and sponge balls instead. Buy yourself a set of four regular-softness 2-inch sponge balls to practice with. If you find them too big or hard to handle, you can always go to smaller balls or the super-soft balls later. (It's easier to go smaller and softer later rather than going larger and firmer later.) The entire purchase should cost you about $15 or so. (After you've familiarized yourself with the sponge balls, get the World's Greatest Magic DVD for sponge balls -- about $20 -- for more ideas on the subject.) The reason why I suggest sponge balls first is because they can be mastered quicker and they are easier to routine than cups and balls while using some of the same principles. That isn't to say that sponge balls are better. The cups are more versatile and can teach you more about magic than the sponge balls, but the cups take a long time to master, and for the beginner, it's better to have several routines up and running while you are practicing the cups. Just a few thoughts. Bill |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-13 21:29, Mustang wrote: A fair point - as long as sponge balls or C&B are not viewed as the next "trick" to master. Keeping in mind that a lot of packet tricks also need some sleight of hands, there should not be the misunderstanding that C&B or SBs are viewed as the next more demanding stage. A magical eduation is more than just learning some sleights and routines.
Cards never lie
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marty.sasaki Inner circle 1117 Posts |
Remember that you don't have to invest in an expensive set of cups. It may seem heritical, but why not buy one of those cheap plastic sets. You can learn most of the sleights and general handling with the cheap set and see if you really like the cups and balls. If you do, then you can get the more expensive cups, if you don't, then you have only spent a small bit of money.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind. |
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vpatanio Special user 515 Posts |
I agree with Marty's advice.
If you buy a book like Mark Wilson's Complete Course, you will have the resource to perform both effects, and if you throw in a few sponge balls, you can probably get everything for around $30.00 or less. In addition, you can learn a cup and ball routine with paper cups and tissues (I still do this as an impromptu-type of effect for people at work in the break room, although I enjoy nothing more than using my cups) Anyway my point being, you can obtain everything for around $30 bucks and not only will you get those two effects, but hundreds of others as well. P.S. I guess my advice only applies if you don't already have this book. I guess I was just assuming. My appologies if you already own Mark's book. -Vinny |
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Eddie Torres Special user New York City 692 Posts |
Also consider who you'll be performing for. If you're not out there getting gigs then carrying around a set of cups with you doesn't make a lot of sense. You can always carry a few sponges in a pocket, though so that you can perform for friends and family. Personally, I began with sponges and from them learned lots of great sleights that I was later able to apply to all sorts of routines including cups and balls.
Eddie
Eddie Ivan Torres
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Angio333 Regular user 130 Posts |
Thanks everyone! I decided to go with Sponge balls and Mark Wilson's book.
- C
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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
Mark Wilson's book is a GREAT resource. It also has a cups and balls routine, so you should take a look at it and see if you like the effect.
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vpatanio Special user 515 Posts |
Great choice, you'll be able to get a taste of so much magic.
-Vinny |
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JordanB Special user dallas, tx 626 Posts |
I think that the Mark Wilson book and sponge balls is a great choice. There is also a very nice beginners routine for the cups and balls in that book.
I would like to recommend that if you find that you enjoy sleight of hand magic, that you purchase "Stars of Magic". I didn't see anyone else mention it, so I thought I would. For the price you can't go wrong (plus it has a killer impromptu cups and balls routine). I wouldn't recommend it for the beginner, but once you're ready to move past the Mark Wilson book, then you might be ready. |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
I designed the curriculum, taught the classes and ran the magic schools. Four of 'em over a 20 year period and I can tell you that from a beginner stand point Sponge Balls is a MUCH better bet for you than Cups and Balls. As a form of manipulation it's both easier and more powerful in performance.
Don't misunderstand: Cups and Balls is a wonderful routine. Even a simple Cups and Balls routine is fun, interesting and magical. But, any good sponge ball routine will ALWAYS have moves INTO a spectator's hand and that interaction will almost always trump a routine in which there is no direct physical interaction with the audience. Sponge work also is a good base FOR cups and balls work later on. In any event they are both more fun than anyone should be allowed to have so you can't really go wrong with either one. All best,
Brad Burt
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
All the best and have fun
Cards never lie
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