Feel like I should say something, but I'm at a loss as to what to say. I know if I were sitting face to face with you I would have a million things to say. Sounds to me like you need a new hobby. Not that you should drop magic, but in your situation it seems like it is a very introverted hobby. Turn off your computer, put down your cards and go join a club. Sports and drinking are only 2 things! There are a million other things out there to occupy yourself with. Surround yourself with people. Listen to them. Most people don't give 2 s**ts about "cool" people. They just like to have a heartfelt chat. Be nice, be yourself. Don't try to be someone you're not. It's impossible and if you try, you will fail. I've read a lot of your posts on here over the years and it sounds like you are trying too hard. You also sound like a very smart guy, however far too self critical. Being a magician is not the be all and end all of anything. It's not a last chance. WINNING AND LOSING IS ONLY A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE. Stop comparing yourself to others. Stop looking up. Look around. Get out of your house and live your life. Magic is a beautiful way to spend time, whether alone or performing, but a deck of cards is inanimate.
I'm very sorry if this sounds in anyway bad or harsh, but if you were my buddy in Oslo, I'd say the same thing to you over a coffee or a beer.
All the best
Scott

Sounds like you really set the bar incredibly high for yourself. When I was in law school years ago I started MCing talent shows which were quite popular with the students. One student played piano and was a virtuoso. He forewent his professional music career to go to law school. His playing was profound and complex compared to the other performers. When I congratulated him on his performance, he too made extremely negative comments similar to yours about his playing. Apparently he missed a note because of an old finger injury. How sad! We really enjoyed his art. He hated it. I'm sure no one noticed his "mistake" except him. Two years later as a third year law student he came onto the stage with a banjo, a straw hat and a Hawaii shirt and he had a great time playing country music....He had finally figured it out. If he is not enjoying his act, what is the point? Perhaps you need to change your approach. Put a little comedy into your act. Make fun of yourself. Take it easy! You will perhaps learn how to enjoy what you do, and the audience will pick up on this and enjoy you having fun with them.

:magicrabbit:

O.K. You´re a loser.


Or?


How can you call yourself a loser, when you say that you´re "fine and content"?
Do you really see yourself as a loser, or do you think that OTHER PEOPLE do that?
Why do you bother about what they think? If you did, you would never started doing magic Du verkar I alla fall ha sjukdomsinsikt vilket gör att jag tror du är en person som faktiskt är kul och avslappnad att umgås med. Nedvärdera inte dig själv I onödan.

Håkan
:wavey:

Noobini, you have an interesting and sometimes entertaining view of yourself, I read your posts with great interest. You and I both know there will be a day when we can laugh at your somewhat pessimistic posting a few above mine.

You mention you have a cheat sheet with you, so you are obviously interested in performing. Having mentioned to other people that you dabble in magic confirms this. Well, your path to it may be longer than mine (I just pulled out my cards one day and showed a few tricks), but in the end you may enjoy the journey more. Perhaps you have chosen the slower more scenic route.

You consider yourself shy. Is this because you find yourself less interesting than other people? Are you studying magic to feel more interesting? If so, you are like a lot of us, nothing more and certainly nothing less. I think you know this already, but the key to being more interesting is to share more of yourself with other people. Looking at yourself you see both the good and the bad sides. Looking at other people, you mostly see only what they choose to share. You can not compare the two objectively, but of course you are already aware of that, right?

Three words for you: Go do it!

Oh, and don't worry about having fun, you will. But you realized that already, otherwise you wouldn't post here.

Michael

You might want to look at David Blaine's Fearless. Ignore the magic, and focus on what he says, how he approaches people, etc. He approaches all sorts of people, kids, mother and daughter, etc.

Hi Noobini,

The following quote from an article on Derren Brown's C4 site may be inspiring…

'If you have already decided – perhaps unconsciously – that the person you are about to meet isn't going to like you, the chances are that you will give off signals that show an uneasy rapport and a presumption of dislike between you. Therefore you tend to get what you expect.

If, on the other hand, you walk into a situation having decided that you are immensely likeable and worth knowing (even if you have to fake it ...), you'll find, all other things being equal, that you get a better response. And then as more people respond well to you, you start to change your own opinions about yourself.'

To read the entire thing click the link: http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv......ide.html

I think once you learn to ‘fake sincerity’ in magic all feeling of guilt about deceiving and nervousness in respect to sleights will fade away and you will become a much better communicator and a more entertaining character.

I felt very similar to you at one time in my life and gave up performing for several years but now I'm back into the gist of it, keen to improve and perform without the burden of insecurities or self-pity.

Ta,

John

P.S. Thanks for the link.

Alrighty, first of all, I think it's awsome that you are from Norway! I know a couple of people from there (exchange students) and they were really freindly. Secondly, and, to the topic: to me it seems that you just need to relax. From what you are saying, you've put in the practice and the rest, but you keep getting the jitters.

The easiest thing for me to do to relax is to joke around with my audience a bit (oh, so you know, I am also a 'noob'. I only do a couple tricks: the french drop, the pinch drop, a rubber band trick... you know- but none of them too well. My audience is also generally friends/family although I do try out my tricks with my immediate fam.{brothers, sisters, ma and pa} before anyone else). I do mess up with my tricks quite a bit, but no one really seems to mind (although my little brother LOVES it when he sees me mess up )

If you do mess up, no worries. No one is going to chase you out of town with pitchforks and torches like some mutated ogre-beast! Just laugh about it- might even be able to use the laugheter as a bit of a distraction- people tend to look at other people's faces when laughing.

As to the getting to actually do the tricks- directly aproach someone. What I like to do is present it as the 'audience' doing me a favor: I have this little brother or something that has a party coming up, and he loves magic, and so would you please do me a favor by telling me if the tricks are any good? - then you even have a theme to go by. maybe say that you used to have a relative who did them and 'this was one of my favorites'.

But again, if they blow you off, or if someone in the audience blows the trick, don't sweat it. Just keep going. I think the real 'magic' happens when the audience can tell that you are having fun, and that's what the magic is for- you to have fun. It's not even really about the audience seeing your tricks, it's the joy of doing them. Although, I won't lie, it IS great when the audience oohs and awws.

Another thing- don't be so hard on yourself. You have the time, you have the sheet, you look like a magician. Really, you do. I have never heard of a 'toast master' before. I suppose they are professional magicians.... anyway, doesn't matter if you can find a phone number for one who is saying he/she/they are giving courses. just get the number, call, explain, and ask if they will consider teaching you. Chances are, if you show enough enthusiasm, they'll do it. The worst thing that can happen is they'll say 'no' right?

Anyway, those are my thoughts, disjointed as they are.

Good Luck!

Der Magier

Just want to add my 2 cents if I might. You know who was terrified of performing in front of lay people? Dai Vernon. At firs the only performed in front of other magicians. Where would we be if he had decided to chuck it? Just saying that if Dai Vernon could be afraid of performing, it's natural all of us could as well.

Let me start by saying I am also a hobbyist, and I am starting to perform more and more in front of others, I also felt sick to my stomach when I performed.

It sounds to me like fear is getting in your way. When alone in front of the mirror there is no fear since you are alone. You need to conquer your fear of failure. There are a few things you can do. If you like Card magic, then get " Card College Lite" by Roberto Giobbi. It includes 21 card effects divided into 7 routines of 3 tricks each. ALL Self working. This way you do not have to worry about messing up sleights, there are no sleights to perform.

Just select 3 effects, in a routine, and practice. What I used to do, was get to where I could do the routine in my sleep. Then I never said." want to see magic?" I would say.." Want to see something cool? I am just starting with this, so bare with me." that takes the pressure off if you fail. And if you succeed say.." WoW... that was the first time I got that to work..thanks for watching... let me try something else ok?"

What I did when I started was always approached a single person I felt would be receptive to magic. Nothing more discouraging than someone that could not be bothered. So.. There I am on the bus... and I take out my cards...and start doing Erdnase Color Changes..looking at people. When I see a smile, or a look of shock, I'll catch their eye, and smile...then say " Want to see something cool?" The smile tells me they appreciate magic.

After a few one on ones, maybe move on to couples or small groups...
After you have nailed the self workers, then consider adding a trick or two with easy sleights. I found Michael Ammar's card Miracles an awesome introduction to card magic. he teaches powerful yet easy to perform effects that build up your card handling skills.

Personal high point. My mom found out I was seriously studying magic. And even though I am an adult,she was not very supportive, she thought it would be a waste of time since I was not 12 or 13... " Too old to be starting" she would say to me. When I approached her she would be too busy to watch, or would distract me by changing the subject or look away.

Me I think no one is ever too old to perform. Anyway, a friend of my daughters was at her house, and I really wanted HER to see my progress. So I asked him." want to see something cool?" I did Red Hot Mama, then Twisting the Aces, then I went to her and told her " let's try something" I made as if I was going to put the Black aces on her hand... I did a few lifts and she ended up with the red aces.. I asked her " where is the ace of clubs?" when she saw she had the red aces and I had the black,... her jaw dropped, and she said.." You should do parties..!!" Yay me!!!

Anyway this is getting long. Just wanted to share some insights that worked for me.. and a story of personal accomplishment. Good luck, and keep us abreast

Noobini, though our ages are different, I can relate with some of the feelings you describe, about feeling withdrawn and a loner, but oddly still wanting that connection with others, perhaps even dreaming of the attention we could garner with something that would 'wow' others - magic, or whatever that might be.

I think this is just a natural outgrowth of how we were made - whether intro- or extro-verted, we were all made to thrive when in open, accepting relationships with other people.

I think it is true that people can smell people's lack of confidence, and conversely that someone who is self-assured and self-confident, puts people at ease and makes it easier for them - even if they were the same people in both instances - to like them. Sounds like a catch-22, but I think there's something to be learned from that, which is that: people are all very similar. No matter how 'together' someone looks, how good-looking, how advanced in their field, etc., there is still a nagging sense of inadequacy. Because we were all children once. Because we've all been made fun of once. Because we've all weathered (perhaps only once, perhaps daily), the raised eyebrow of teacher or parent or older sibling, and thereafter, the residual desire to prove our worth lingers. And so when someone expresses a confidence that we find we lack, we are drawn to them - and when we see someone who seems as weak as ourselves, we - in an external expression of almost a form of self-loathing - want to push them away.

So, what to do? I think one thing, then, is to recognize this, and have empathy for your audience (or new acquaintance, etc.). And then, to be freed - freed from anxiety, from worrying about 'getting this social interaction right' and so on, because, the other person is going through it too! There is nothing so reassuring and barrier-dropping than knowing that you are all in the same boat =)

Then, I think your love for the craft can be allowed to shine. You don't have to be great. But if you love magic, or even just think it's really cool, that will be infectious and it will bring good vibes to your audience.

Now, on to some technical magiccraft. I absolutely agree with the previous comments about scripting. Your script/patter, is the solid framework upon which to hang your performance. In the beginning you'll have a script that you either got from someone else, or came up with in isolation, which just means that every time you try it out on someone, you'll have to pull the pegs of that frame and readjust to fit the real-world response. But give it just 3 performances, and you'll be amazed just how much you can nail it down close to the 'ideal.' It's incredibly fun to tweak based on feedback, and to innovate new little nuances - ultimately making the effect your own.

Two of the card effects I love doing most, and that my audiences love watching the most, are ones that my friend and I came up with a long time ago. These have been honed over now hundreds of performances in the intervening 10 years, and I use almost the same words, pacing, timing, every time I perform it. The 'well-worn'-ness of it, I think soothes the audience, gives them assurance that this is a loved and also well crafted effect, and it really puts me at ease too, because it's nearly all in pure muscle memory now! And that frees me up to respond to the different ways people respond, the different surprise things that may pop up based on the people, the location, the card they choose.

That was a bit long-winded, but hope it helps. And, if you think it might be useful, I'd be willing to share one or both of those effects with you. Lmk! Magic is wonderful, but really blooms when you do it for others. That is the ultimate goal =)

I cant begin to explain how much I sympathize with you. I myself have serious performance anxiety problems...and not only in magic! I am a fiddle player, and I defy anyone to try and vibrate on a G in the middle of a Schubert Quartet when your hand is shaking more than the salt at thanksgiving!

I can recall being so nervous performing at a Ring meeting. I somehow managed to get up in front of everyone and I started off the effect fighting through it (Back in Time by Joshua Jay) and it worked until the little girl who helped me forgot her card which came across as an error on my part. The shaking during the recovery was worse than ever, and I came close to passing out.

It got so bad I thought about quitting and selling everything I had. I even emailed every major magician I could to ask for advice (Ammar, Daryl, Lovell, etc etc etc) They all wrote back giving wonderful advice, Ammar especially, but still to this day I shake.

Some things that helped though...

Performing at a nursing home! I cant tell you ho much this helped. They are so happy for someone to be there, and they can barely see so you do visual magic and they get into it! Somehow you aren't as worried about performing the difficult sleights that it just works! IDK maybe it was just for me

Also some advice Ammar gave. He said realize there is a duplicity to magic that makes a simple demonstrations something fearful. You don't get nervous just talking, but add something cloaked at it becomes something scary. He suggested that I realize this-I am doing nothing but talking and showing something. Don't look at it as something to fool people but rather something to entertain.

Ammar also mentioned how you eventually hit your stride. One you successfully complete an effect its like you hit a stride and you are ok to go and do other stuff.He said to get into this stride you do tricks that you couldn't mess up if you tried.

Try these they worked! But still I get nervous, and to tell the truth I wont ever get over it. But that will add to the performance! That was the one common piece of advice all the magicians that wrote back shared!

Thank you to all who have kindly added their advice and supportive comments since my last entry here. I have not answered in a while as I didn't want to keep bumping the thread and give the impression that I forever plan to have an ongoing discussion about myself here. But I have read every post with great interest and gratitude!

It has been almost 7 months since I started this thread. In that time I have not performed any magic for anyone. And no one has asked me to do so either. The majority of my friends have never seen me do any magic at all and one would perhaps have expected at least a mild curiosity. But they just aren't especially interested, which is fine. I accept that. Some ask me if I still practice my magic and seem supportive of that thought. Others ask me if I really still persist with such nonsense. And I do.

My repertoire is a lot smaller now than it was 7 months ago. I have not practiced or rehearsed any magic tricks or learned any new ones. Most of what I knew is rusting in my notebooks.

What I have been doing is sleight practice with cards and coins. A few hours a day. I am a bit burned out and find it hard to bring myself to read or watch magic. But practicing moves while I watch a movie is fine. I have practiced just a few advanced things during these months. That way I have my plate full and don't have to take on the chore of moving on to new things.

There are a lot of things I feel I will be able to do in my sleep soon, so in that sense things are going quite well. I have really gotten on top of a few things, such as side steals, culls and memdeck familiarity. I think I only remember about two card tricks at the moment, but I handle the cards in a more fluid and casual manner.

A part of me still thinks that I won't ever perform for anyone. And a part of me doesn't even want to. I have days when I am almost desperate to show something to someone and I have days when I walk around fearing that the subject might come up. I know I will never do things like approaching strangers and offer to do magic. Nor will I ever sit on a bench somewhere and do flourishes to "lure" people in and have them ask to see something. It's not who I am.

I know that since everyone says that performing is the real source to magic skills, the fact that I will probably never perform more than a trick or two a year may mean that I will never ever get any good. So from that point of view there really isn't any point to any of this. But I persist with my sleights anyway. I have started thinking about joining the magic circle here, but knowing myself I probably wouldn't go to their meetings. I detest group activities. If I went I would perhaps just sit in a corner and remain silent.

Well, anyway I haven't given up on magic. Largely thanks to all of you here at the café! Thank you all again for all the thoughts you have offered!

That, my friend, is a horrid lie! The fact that you have things you can do almost "in your sleep" is proof of that lie. You ARE "getting good".

And who has the checklist for what is "good" and what is not? Who is giving out the grades and telling you that you are flunking magic?

Magic first and formost MUST be for "me" - for the person holding the cards or the coins. Magic is a performance art, this is true - but my first performance is to ME. Self-confidence comes when *I* am sure of *my* approval of my performance, that it's as good as I can get it right now. Then I am not looking to anyone else for a pass-fail grade, but for improvements. The improvements, then, do not mean that I was bad before - rather that I was as good as I could be at that moment, and if I can learn and implement a few suggestions, I will get better.

What is the point in all of this? ~YOU~ like doing it! There need be no other point!! Life is too short to waste on impressing everyone else. Do what makes _you_ happy, and be happy with what you're doing.

I spent a few months playing with Twisted Sister to the exclusion of everything else. I haven't performed in a long time, and it may well be 6 months to a year or longer before I manage to put any kind of performance together. I refuse to throw something up there unless _I am happy_ while I'm doing it! "Show us some magic!" "No, not today - it's not a good day for me to do that" is perfectly acceptable!

I refuse to be driven by other people's opinions of me and what I do and how well I do it. ~MY~ magic stinks??!? When was the last time they had the desire to do something more challenging than read a comic book!? I will push myself to do what I will do. And THAT is the point!

Push on, my friend! You are more than you see in the mirror.

Ed

Noobini,

I find that often the best performances are impromptu ones, in the sense that you weren't expecting to do them. Maybe it's that one time when a friend expresses interest or whatever, so don't worry about showing a couple of tricks a year, or planning a performance.

But when you come back to practicing tricks instead of sleights, make sure that you give your patter out loud. This will help so much when that time comes that you have a chance to perform.

As you say your repertoire has reduced to 7 tricks or so. Great. That's more than enough to wow when your time comes - and it will come. You have always shown dedication here so why should now be any different? In fact now you can see your magic improving - we are often our own worst critics, and you are now looking with a more knowledgeable eye than a layman so you are harder on yourself than I bet you should be.

And you have your mem-deck...miracles at your fingertips

Sounds to me like a good position to be in...7 months on from that post...still here...

Best of Luck

Do it. Join up. Go to the meetings. One of the smartest things I have done was to join the local Magic Club. I found a wealth of support and encouragement there.
May I tell a story?
I had been learning magic for just a few months when I discovered the Ashes on the Arm trick. Where you burn a card and rub the ashes on your arm to reveal it. I did this trick like crazy for about a year. I had developed it into a very dramatic and spooky affair. It was great. Then one day I burned the wrong card. I was totally crushed. There's no out for that kind of mistake, you know? I know what happened, obviously, but I still don't know HOW it happened. Anyway, I nearly gave up magic altogether. But instead I holed up at home and got to work on making sure that something like that would NEVER happen again. So, don't lose faith in yourself. We all feel like total boneheads sometimes.

There is one thing I think you should do, if you haven't already. Something that all entertainers should do actually. Answer these questions.
What do you hope to achieve with your magic study? What are your goals? What do you want to get from it?
Answer these questions, then make a plan for yourself.

Also, read "Maximum Entertainment" by Ken Weber. Reading that book opened doors in my mind and really helped me develop my inner Warrior Wizard. It is my most cherished magic book.

You really have to compare apples with apples. If you only study from books or DVD's and never perform you will have a very good knowledge of magic and may even be very competent at performing sleights. In fact you may be a pretty good magician.
If you jump right into performing you will gain a lot of experience but without a solid base of "book smarts" you wouldn't really know what you are learning. Stick to the books and when you are ready to go out and perform you will learn the "experience" a lot faster because you will actually know and understand what is going wrong and how to fix it. And if that day never comes....who really cares. Just keep having fun and practising and hope you are still around in another 7 months.

Noobini, I've been there. I would perform and it didn't interest them. I've screwed up many tricks thanks to nervousness. I've quit doing magic for 1 year because I thought I couldn't do it. BUT.... I did a trick at a party with a different attitude a year later. I didn't care if they caught me, I didn't care if I knew the trick yes or no, I didn't care for anything except doing the trick. I got the reactions I always wanted to have. I know now that it was me, not getting the most of the tricks thanks to my nervousness. I quit magic and came back, with a much better attitude.

Hope this helps. Just wanted to say you are not alone

Noobini,

A statement in your original post gives me pause. .

I don't think wanting to shut them up with something amazing is a good approach for an entertainer to take.

If you're dealing with a true heckler than I'd say move on to a more appreciative audience.

Your goal as a performer should really be to make the audience feel good, not exact some kind of revenge with a "oh yeah, figure that out" in-your-face kind of trick. Although I admit, it can be somewhat gratifying when a heckler is reduced to a clueless state of wonder, that shouldn't be your goal in performing.

Just my $.02.

Besides that, I echo the previous suggestions to find a supportive audience that will appreciate your efforts and help you improve.

Stick with it,

Greg.

I think Magic is quite cool, but you have to present it that way. I do many mentalism and PK effects and they make people freak. The 13 year olds are blown away when words appear on their arms or in blood on mine. Basically, Magic is very cool.

Agreed, magic is cool. In about 4 months of restaurant work, I've only had two tables who didn't want to see my magic, one of which was having an argument, so I count that as 1

The Amazing Noobini,

Stay in there mate we've all been in your situation. I work at a magic Bar in Bristol now and I'm one of the amateur magicians that perform a few nights inbetween the pro's. Its always demoralizing when your working next to pros who are amazing, get the crowd gripped and within their grasp and perform fantastic and miraculous miracles in their hands. For me to step up and perform is really hard since I don not have all that much experience- sometimes I feel like giving up and there are many times when I feel like I'm going no where, no improvement etc.

However, there are times when I hit it, get the right spot, the crowd love it, I nail everything, I have a laugh with everyone and its all really fun! Live for these moments because they are the times that will push you along this magic yellow brick road to competance, success and fulfillment. Trust me, and I'm sure there are many people on here that will back me up on this one.

Will