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Magicmatt1982
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Really all I can say is AMEN to mike for saying that. We do need to honor God in everything we do and I love what I beleive John wesley said always preach the gospel and use words if you have to. What that means is your life should always show Jesus Christ and walking in his light not matter if you are at the mall shopping or performing magic at a local resturant. So again Nice job mike.
Terry Owens
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Absolutely, 24/7 we should be reflecting the one who abides in us...
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 17:15, Magicmatt1982 wrote:

I beleive John wesley said always preach the gospel and use words if you have to.



No, this was originally spoken, or at least attributed to Saint Francis of Assisi who said

"Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words".

Well since he was a monk he more likely said

"Praedicatio evangelium usquequaque , quod ut necesse utor lacuna"
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Magicmatt1982
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Thank you for correcting me on the quote.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 16:30, marD wrote:

I heard Todd Friel read an agreement that one of the bigger TV stations made in the 1950s or 60s. It was really amazing how differently they looked at things back then and how far things have fallen since that time.



Yeah we've really hit bottom since those days. Who needs equal rights for minorities and women. Non segregated schools and cultural diversity.

I grew up in the Sixties and I can tell you I'd rather live here than there.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
marD
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I didn't say everything in the 60s was right, but they did revere and respect God more then than they do now...
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ibm_usa
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 02:54, Joe Marotta wrote:
Hi Matt,

I agree with you. I don't like the direction it's going. But you know, these people are acting like this because that's their nature

Joe


Glad you share the same "philosophy" on ones "Nature" as I do
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 16:14, Joe Marotta wrote:
Yes Payne, I believe that those who would rather fill their act with cursing and blue humor instead of challenging themselves to do the harder work of actually writing something funny that doesn't rely on cursing or sex to get a laugh; these people are lacking in skill and/or are just plain lazy.

Because you mention literary 'experts' doesn't negate the fact that it takes more skill to write humor and entertainment without references to sex or cursing. I don't find cursing as 'an acceptable form of expression'. Long before you or I were born, many states had laws that prohibited public cursing and blasphemy. Seems like those laws have either been removed from the law books or just not enforced due to the outcry of those who feel it's there constitutional right to curse and offend people in public.

So I'm exercising my constitutional right to disagree with you and say that I find it offensive, and I still agree with the original post that magicians should not have to resort to sexual overtones in order make their act more popular.

Let's go back to the days when people would strive for more skill and professionalism in their acts.


It's a different not a lesser skill. Just as entertaining children is a different skill set than entertaining adults. Using your preconcieved notions I could just as easily say that a Gospel magician is lazy because he knows that every time he says Amen he is going to get a reaction from the crowd.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
ibm_usa
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[quote]On 2008-01-20 14:37, Magicmatt1982 wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-01-20 10:39, Magicmatt1982 wrote:


First of all you qoute about the old testament is the most retarded thing I have ever heared. God is the God of love, peace and mercy at the sametime he is a God of Wrath and judgement.


Actaully, God as He is depicted in the Old Testament was a " Tough Love" God. Most of God's wrath is depicted in the Old Testament, God gave Israel hard to follow rules and regulations that have came to be known as the Ten Commandments. I don't mean to preach a sermon here. Why would a loving God do that? God gave Israel these tough and hard to live by rules and allowed Israel to suffer more persecution then any other group of people at the time so that they will first, Grow and second, to show Israel's need for a saviour!
It wasn't until Christ's birth, death and resurrection that God became less wrathful to mankind. But until a man or a woman has been reconnciled by God through Jesus Christ, they will always be under the burden of the Law and the wrath of God.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
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In other words you will never have peace with God until you have came to know and accept Christ which the Israelites mentioned in the Old Testament never did, they got to heaven but while they were present on earth they had to face the wrath of God.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Magicmatt1982
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[/quote]

It's a different not a lesser skill. Just as entertaining children is a different skill set than entertaining adults. Using your preconcieved notions I could just as easily say that a Gospel magician is lazy because he knows that every time he says Amen he is going to get a reaction from the crowd.
[/quote]

So are you telling me that just because you work with adults that gives you the reason for going dirty. I work all the time for adults and the number one thing they say to me besides having a great show is thank you for not going dirty. And I will tell you somthing I work for youth groups and all kinds of youth events and I never ever have to say amen to get a reaction from the crowd. BVesides I do not call myself a gospel magician just a magician.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 21:54, Magicmatt1982 wrote:

So are you telling me that just because you work with adults that gives you the reason for going dirty. I work all the time for adults and the number one thing they say to me besides having a great show is thank you for not going dirty. And I will tell you somthing I work for youth groups and all kinds of youth events and I never ever have to say amen to get a reaction from the crowd. BVesides I do not call myself a gospel magician just a magician.



I rarely do blue material and only when it suits the audience and venue. 99.9% of the time I work clean, even for an all adult crowd. When I work "blue" I rarely curse but will go for the occasional sexual innuendo or risqué prop. An all out blue act really wouldn't work for me but it does work for other performers and I see no reason to limit their creativity simply because it might offend you.
It is virtually impossible to create an act that won't offend someone and more than likely if you succeed you'll have an act so banal that no one will watch.
I too am offended by certain types of humour and performance styles but I don't try to force them to change their ways. I simply switch the channel or refrain from attending their performances.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
David McCall
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 10:39, Magicmatt1982 wrote:
WOw you all have some great and some have some wiered thoughts on this. well first joe yes that is me that is the cover of my dvd project that I have for sale. now back to the post

Porn is the number one industery around the world and yes christ did hang out with hookers and tax collectors BUT he did not say it is ok. The reason he did that was to preach and show them a better way.

If one person does it then it is ok? That kind of thinking is a main reason we are were we are today. and I am sick of it. We as Christians need to start to stand up and say no and do something about it. Men as christian men we need to the look like the god who created us and that is like a warrior. I also think that yes we can just not pay for the tickets or the magazines or whatever but there needs to something else done to take a stand for our great God.

Also when you watch a old movie of blackstone or thurstone or even mark wilson the girls are more clothed because women back then had more respect for themselves now women all over the place will just take there clothes off because it is the cool thing to do.


There is an interesting quote from Max Maven; to paraphrase, Maven makes a joke about magic being the "second oldest profession in the world." And of course, the first being some variation on prostitution.

I thought of that when I read your post.

::Have you ever made "Sponge Twinkies?":: I might consider looking into it. Now THAT'S interesting illusion!
rossmacrae
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 10:39, Magicmatt1982 wrote:
We as Christians need to start to stand up and say no and do something about it. Men as christian men we need to the look like the god who created us and that is like a warrior. I also think that yes we can just not pay for the tickets or the magazines or whatever but there needs to something else done to take a stand for our great God.

And exactly what do you think you or anyone else can "do about it"?

Picket magicians who offend you? It's your right, but it won't accomplish anything. Pass laws against saying "@#&%$^" in a magic show? Establish a board of assistants'-costume-approvers? Not gonna happen.

Best thing you can do to "clean up magic" is be an example. The public at large gets to vote, not just Christians, and people vote with their dollars. We're all adults and all equal under God and under the law, and everyone's dollars count equally in the marketplace ... if you don't like what others are buying, offer them an alternative they'll go for. And if they don't go for it, tough ... live with it or separate yourself from it or whatever, but keep your own house in order and leave others to take care of theirs.

Efforts to "clean up" anything have not fared well, worldwide and particularly here, NOT because "people insist on doing evil" but because people don't want to be told what to do. And no, just because they're not doing what seems well to you, that doesn't mean they need to be controlled. God made each of us an adult, fully responsible for himself. When someone else comes along trying to take authority over me, that flies in the face of God. I don't particularly want to be a sheep, but if I have any shepherd it's God, not any man. And if I stray, it's between me and God.

There are plenty of people who are fully prepared to tell YOU, Magicmatt1982, that you're offending God and them by (I guarantee) some of the things you have judged to be perfectly moral. Do you think it's OK to take a sip of wine now and then? There are those who are certain you're headed for destruction. Others will object to your blasphemous interpretaion of this or that Bible passage (you and the entire denomination you belong to, whichever one it may be). I have even seen heated arguments telling everyone that God has specified only one approved position for marital intimacy (and I'm not talking about disapproval of kinkiness, I'm talking about "this hand here and that leg there ... no, THERE ... OK, now God's happy"). Sad to say, they're serious, they'd be glad for the right to enforce their rules on you, and they're one of the tools the Devil uses to make Christians look foolish and to drive a wedge between God's people.

The price, of course, to be rid of this dissension is that you have to leave others alone, even when their ways seem wrong. Your ways seem wrong to many people, too. And if a good solid Bible-based case can be made against the naughty things you see other magicians doing, give me a few minutes and I'll come up with a good solid Bible-based argument (supplying chapter and verse and not straining a single point) against any given element of your show. Yes, really.

I hardly think Criss Angel is going to ruin the whole field of magic. Be a good example, and a good alternative for those who want it, and Angell will be a "who's he?" when his 15 minutes of fame are over.
rossmacrae
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On 2008-01-20 14:51, Magicmatt1982 wrote:
I was just watching a clip from this website and I think that some of you should watch it and at 8 min and 22 seconds listen to the quetions that the guy is asking.

The conclusion drawn by the interviewer does not follow from the question asked. This interviewer is cheating, it's demagoguery of the basest sort, despite his professed "moral" motive.

Both magical effects and dramas are not portrayals of fact.

The magician pretends that a miracle is happening, and the audience agrees for the moment to be persuaded. The Gospel magician does so to illustrate a point. To pretend that actual miracles were hasppening would be unethical at best (and sadly we see real-life examples of this often, we could both name far too many names).

Similarly, in a movie, the actors portray imagined characters and situations, not their real lives, for the purpose of illustrating the author's point, and the audience agrees for the moment to forget that it's just acting. What would be our duty if we really believed we were actually watching people be shot, or seeing someone (as in THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST) actually be tortured and crucified, or actually seeing a couple [doing what the interviewer suggested we were "peeping toms" for seeing]? In the first two cases, our duty would be to rush to the police - in the last case, we should rush to the police and turn ourselves in. It matters not one bit whether any given movie might be a work of art that can change one's outlook on life for the better, or a base and crude parade of vulgarity - whatever you're watching, you're not watching real life.

True, we have all seen messages in this Café topic telling of Christians objecting to Gospel magicians - but you are not persuaded by their argument, and I suspect you'd be very uncomfortable (even angry) if someone started twisting logic to shame you for fooling people with your effects. Likewise, I have seen very conservative Christians argue that all drama, indeed all fiction, is ungodly because it equals lying. I suspect that most of us don't buy that argument either.

When someone comes up to me with a glib proposition like the interviewer in that video, he's invariably trying to manipulate me (or onlookers) with a slick line of gab and shady reasoning, and he's not to be trusted - just so in this example. It brings no honor to his cause that he cloaks himself in a "holy purpose" to try to manipulate me - if he were at all responsible, he wouldn't treat me like an idiot, and that kind of treatment is offensive.
Magiman
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[/quote]
Magicmatt1982 wrote...
First of all you qoute about the old testament is the most retarded thing I have ever heared. God is the God of love, peace and mercy at the sametime he is a God of Wrath and judgement. Second I have not judged anyone . All I have said is that I am tiered of the sex sells and now it is in the magic comuunity and it is sick. Those are my thoughts and again I have not judged anyone. So before you go and attack me you might want to check yourself.
[/quote]

It's probably a good thing your God isn't a God of literacy.
-Magiman
Kerry Kistler
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Alrighty then.

As our uber-host Steve Brooks would say, "Play nice."

Please curb the religious rhetoric. I've got no time to play ref so return to your corners and try to remember that this is a MAGIC forum. My finger is on the EASY button and I ain't afraid to use it.

Tally ho,
Kerry
Joe Marotta
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Tally ho?!

Kerry, I thought you preferred the Bicycle brand of playing cards?
Magicmatt1982
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So why does it seem that out of no where these three guys are just attacking me. Look I have just gone thru the topic and we have gotten way off track as to most of the topics in the Café. So to get us back. I have stated that I am sick of the sex sells topic in this world and I just do not see why it has to be in the magic world. I wonder what Thurston , Blackstone jr and sr, or even what mark wilson's thinks about it. Magic is not for trash yet it is becoming more about that .

I want you all to know that when I say trash I mean sex and the crap that goes with it and not effects.
What do I think we should do ? Well I have been thinking about this and I think that only thing we can do is as christians we stand up and not buy the trash and not go to the shows that surport such things. So those are my thoughts.
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Okay Matt, thanks for letting us know.
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