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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Clean hand dice switches (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magician8
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I was reading in Ortiz's book about clean hand dice switches and I was wondering where I can find more techniques for doing this as I find it a major advantage.
magician8
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Nobody? Are this switches that rare?





8
tommy
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I am not a dice guy but I have seen George Joseph do some of that work so I guess you might try:

GEORGE JOSEPH'S CHEATING AT CRAPS DVD.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magician8
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Thanks tommy, it's good to know somebody knows what I'm talking about.




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card cheat
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I've actually seen some of Joseph's work somewhere... perhaps YouTube?

Seems like kind of a hack, honestly.

I know he's been around for a while, but have never really heard any of my contacts say anything good about him. Who knows? Maybe he was a bit better once upon a time?

Of course, I'm speaking of his card work only. I actually don't know a SINGLE thing about dice play, or cheating at dice games. It could be that his dice work is much better than his card work.

CC
walking_liberty
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Quote:
On 2008-01-31 21:20, card cheat wrote:
...It could be that his dice work is much better than his card work.

CC


Nope. Probably worse.
card cheat
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Uh oh...

CC
NicholasD
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Steve Forte does some nice dice switches on his Gambling Protection videos. There doesn't seem to be anything he can't do.
Mr. Z
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George is pretty good in terms of knowledge. I've never been terribly impressed with his sleight of hand skills, although he used to do some nice mucks.

Avoid his old tapes (now on DVD). While some may take interest in the fact that they were the first video series on game protection ever produced, the video quality is quite bad and the material isn't much better. In fact there's a lot of BS magic-type stuff on there, and the execution of many of the moves leaves a lot to be desired.

I've never seen a "clean hand" dice switch (apart from the coat switch) that kicked my skirt up. "Clean hand" usually means a back palm, just like a playing card. The way most do it is quite bold, but perhaps a nice move for demo.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
walking_liberty
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I have quite a few "clean hand" switches. Some that even begin clean as well. None of which can be found in a book or video that's for sale. My suggestion would be to get all the books you can find, all the videos you can find, learn those methods, gain some expirience, meet as many knowledgable people as you can, and work on your own switches and controls. Once you have specific needs you will be able to invent your own switches that meet those needs. Good luck and don't give up if it takes a long time.
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2008-01-31 23:04, walking_liberty wrote:
I have quite a few "clean hand" switches. Some that even begin clean as well. None of which can be found in a book or video that's for sale. My suggestion would be to get all the books you can find, all the videos you can find, learn those methods, gain some expirience, meet as many knowledgable people as you can, and work on your own switches and controls. Once you have specific needs you will be able to invent your own switches that meet those needs. Good luck and don't give up if it takes a long time.


Readers the teacher has spoken...In this here area, Doc is the student.

Mr. Z. you have a very short memory regarding clean hand switches or you've never seen my video...maybe your skirt blocked you from seeing it.

I may not be the first in the world to do it but I'm sure the first to do so here on the internet.


Respectfully,

Doc
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-02-01 01:37, Unknown419 wrote:

Mr. Z. you have a very short memory regarding clean hand switches or you've never seen my video...maybe your skirt blocked you from seeing it.

I may not be the first in the world to do it but I'm sure the first to do so here on the internet.



Well I wasn't including the use of gaffs in my criteria--although my mention of the coat switch somewhat contradicts it, so my bad. For the purposes of the discussion, I was referring to "clean hand" dice switches using pure sleight of hand, namely methods with a back palm.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
tommy
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I think this is the show I seen him doing coat switches etc but I am not sure. Got be worth $6 anyway.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B......didmagic
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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magician8
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Thanks everybody, the information has been really useful, but what I meant was dice switches in which the hand can be shown empty (fingers separated) like in doc's video, maybe without the gaff.
thanks all the same,




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Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2008-02-01 02:26, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-01 01:37, Unknown419 wrote:

Mr. Z. you have a very short memory regarding clean hand switches or you've never seen my video...maybe your skirt blocked you from seeing it.

I may not be the first in the world to do it but I'm sure the first to do so here on the internet.



Well I wasn't including the use of gaffs in my criteria--although my mention of the coat switch somewhat contradicts it, so my bad. For the purposes of the discussion, I was referring to "clean hand" dice switches using pure sleight of hand, namely methods with a back palm.


Mr. Z don't get caught up with all this pure stuff because if this belief were true there would be no Martin Holdouts, Kepplingers, Trimmed Cards, Punches, Daub, loaded dice etc. A second deal isn't worth a plum nickel without a marked (gaffed) deck. So gaffs are necessary in one way or the other.

Your goal will always be to get the money; that's it, nothing more, nothing less and it doesn't matter how you get it as long as you get it. Don't get caught up with a purist attitude because one of the best hustlers in the world had more gaffs than the law allow and....

Last but not least Mr. Z. controlled shots are pure meaning skill wise and is excellent to know, but it will eventually get you ranked amongst the players at the table who you ought to be robbing too. Using gaffed dice and a gaff while making the original disappear and reappear at will, will look much better than controlled shots in the long run; that's why I invented mine because this is what my teacher taught me. Don't take my advise and you'll eventually see, especially when that day comes when one or more dice fall from your palm or the back of your hand.

Oh and by the way if you didn't know, the coat switch and the back palm was invented to make the regular dice disappear and to bring in gaffed ones.

Take Care


Respectfully,

Doc

P.S. If you've read between the lines you have been helped and directed, now stop being curious.
card cheat
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On 2008-02-01 08:32, Unknown419 wrote:
A second deal isn't worth a plum nickel without a marked (gaffed) deck.


Doc... look at what you just said here.

Allow me to say that I have never played paper, and my second deal has been worth one HELL of a lot more than a "plum" nickel.

I hate to say this, but you should know better than that.

Now, I'll finish reading the rest of your post.

CC
card cheat
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Okay, finished the post.

Again, I'm not a dice man, but I think that an interesting discussion could very well ensue regarding the issue of taking off a craps game with gaffs and sleight of hand vs. taking one down with controlled shots.

CC
Mr. Z
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It's a non-issue; dice aren't switched in casinos anymore. You'd be hard-pressed to find examples of gaffed dice scams happening in the last 25 years in the casino setting. Not that it's impossible but the game as operated today doesn't lend itself well to it. Save from a massive conspiracy involving the entire craps crew, players, box, and floor, the notion of a mechanic kicking-in a set of tops for a few rolls no longer exists. One of my favorite and most diabolical plays I've heard of involved only putting the tops in on the come-out, the squares being put back in immediately on the next roll. It was a percentage shot but exceedingly clean, although that's still a hefty amount of risk to assume. It was a way to put the suits asleep after they began getting wise to gaffed dice scams. And this was back in the 50s.

In terms of private games anything can go depending. I'm somewhat in agreement with Doc here--I think in this situation you're best off resorting to gaffs to win the money faster rather than fooling around with a percentage move like a controlled shot that can become exposed to the other players--basically what Doc said. Not for me to say really, private dice games aren't something I'm too knowledgeable in.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2008-02-01 10:25, Mr. Z wrote:
I think in this situation you're best off resorting to gaffs to win the money faster rather than fooling around with a percentage move like a controlled shot that can become exposed to the other players


That's what I was thinking...

Maybe one of these days I will study dice, buuuut... probably not.

CC
h2o
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Craps is not the only dice game played for money. Backgammon is a nice dice game, and can easily be played for money. Backgammon clubs and tournaments are (were) quite popular in some places. I say "were" because since the poker boom, lot of backgammon players switched to Hold'em.

If I ever want to learn cheating with dice, I think I'd focus on cheating moves and gaffs best suited for the Backgammon style of play.
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