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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2196 Posts |
Please forgive me if there is an existing thread on this topic, in which case feel free to refer me to an earlier discussion on this subject.
I've been thinking about the effect of the internet on magic. The internet has revolutionized many things over the last dozen years - has this been good for magic or bad? Certainly there seems to be some ways that the internet has hurt magic: especially the revelation of treasured secrets and breaking the magic code, and making it too easy at times to get the secrets of marketed effects without purchasing them. For example, it seems to me that there are far too many video clips on youtube, that would classify as exposure. But perhaps in comparison the ways that the internet has helped magic are even more: it makes it easier to research magic tricks and effects, buy magic tricks and accessories online, connect and discuss with fellow enthusiasts (example: this message board), provide information for learning and developing an magic interest and skills, and kindle enthusiasm for magic in newcomers, thus perpetuating the art and broadening its appreciation. So on the whole, I'd suggest that magic has helped more by the internet than it has been hurt by it - or am I mistaken? Any further thoughts about how whether the internet has hurt or helped magic, and in what ways this has been the case? |
Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
If we're voting, I vote HURT.
Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
We can find good and bad in everything.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
Mehtas Inner circle England, UK 1649 Posts |
More and more has been exposed since the internet. more n more 'magicians' are made since the.....
In short it has hurt more than done good. |
Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
For those who cannot adapt, the Internet hurts. For those who can adapt, the Internet is a challenge and an opportunity to change, evolve, and do new things never done before.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-24 11:46, Spellbinder wrote: The idea about adapting is true in a way, but it is totally a different animal with the internet. In the past, if someone came up with a new effect, method, presentation, or whatever, it was not instantly accessible to the entire planet. Someone could work for days, months and even years to create something new and then in a matter of minutes it's up for prying eyes to grab and steal. Think about the prediction I made a long time ago about my friend Cyril. He was a secret I kept from magicians outside of Japan. I knew the moment they saw his stuff there would be the instant calls of "I want", "I need to know" and "How can I get it" from all those that are searching to take from others. And it happened. The moment his stuff was seen we had people putting out products based on effects and presentations Cyril and his team had worked out. This would not have happened in the past. Sure, in the past, a few guys with some money could send in spies to get ideas and steal methods, but it would be a handful at best. Now you have the entire planet being the thief of your ideas. And, apparently, no one in the field cares much. Too many people just think that when they see someone perform that it's a lecture. They feel that by seeing something it's open season to steal it. I remember way back when having friends at my apartment and I would do something to them and they would look at my library of books and say, "I bet if I look through them I could find out the secret." I would say, "Go ahead." No one did because most people are basically lazy... sorry to say. They want stuff handed to them. I even went so far as handing them the right book and saying, "Look it up." They would open the book briefly and then see all the reading that had to be done and in some technical vocabulary they did not understand and that would be the end of it. Some would say, "I'll just go to the local magic shop and get it." How many did? None. It took work to get in a car, drive to the shop then actually try to find that exact effect. But now, in the comfort of your own home, while in your underwear, you can click a few keys in Google and get a thousand instant answers of someone's work. Basically, with the click of a mouse you can rob somebody of their hard-earned work, ideas, presentations, methods, sweat, tears and blood. So do I think the internet and it's very easy access to SOMEONE ELSE'S information hurts magic: YES Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Well, then, perhaps it's time we magicians learned how to keep our secrets. But we get greedy for money, or long for fame, so we go on TV or perform for audiences who are all pointing camcorders or camera phones at us, and then act surprised that our secrets get exposed. How do you suppose Samuel Hooker managed to keep the secret of his Impossibilities? Has the Internet exposed them yet?
The Internet is a danger to magic COMMERCE, not to magic itself.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
erlandish Inner circle Vancouver, Canada 1254 Posts |
Agreed with Greg Arce on the point of effect theft. Not even all that long ago some magicians wouldn't perform certain effects if they knew there was another magician in the audience. I guess it was an extra layer of protection -- people couldn't easily figure out the secret to an effect that they had never even seen.
I'm willing to bet we'll see more video editing in the stuff that ends up on TV and eventually Youtube. I don't see any other way around being able to defeat the re-watchability problem. I will say that one aspect of Youtube that is wonderful is that we have a chance to see performance videos of magicians we might otherwise have never gotten a chance to see easily... Cardini, Vernon, Slydini, etc. |
magicgettogether Special user Michigan 556 Posts |
IMHO, I really believe it has helped the art of magic, boards like this where magicians can share ideas, every magic shop on earth at the click of a button, video demonstrations of tricks and magicians from past and present performing them, and for the most part you can still call and talk to a human being at the magic store if you have a question. Sure, there are negatives, but I don't think they offset the positives.
I agree with spellbinder that you need to differentiate between the art of magic and the commerce of magic to answer the question more accurately. |
Dale New user 29 Posts |
I want to believe it has helped magic but I'm afraid I think it has done more harm.
Christopher hit the nail on the head when he said that we can "find good and bad in everything." While certainly true, in my opinion, the harmful effects of the net outweigh the positive contributions. |
walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
IMHO it only hurts bad magicians.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-25 11:20, walid ahumada wrote: "Only" is simplistic. The Internet does many things, not only a single thing. If someone said "The Internet helps bad magicians," then I would agree. In a sense it helps them become better, but it also enables people who probably do not belong in magic in the first place. Determining whether or not the Internet helps or harms "magic" depends on what we mean by magic. In important ways the Enlightenment harmed magic. In any case it's a moot question because there is nothing we can do about it. Did David Blaine's first special hurt or help magic? Arousing interest leads people to seek secrets -- which are supposed to be difficult to access. This gives self-interested parties a profit incentive to satisfy demand, which dilutes the power of the secrets. I think all magicians have benefited from the Internet; the benefits are inescapable. Of course, we need to distinguish personal benefits from personal net-benefits. In this latter case hobbyists have probably posted much stronger net-benefits than bonafide magicians. It's all too easy to favor pulling up the ladder once you're over the wall. Then personal net-benefit must be distinguished from the big daddy, total net-benefit. I think the answer here is "no," even though the Internet has helped me tremendously. This is analogous to the classic tragedy of the commons scenario discussed by economists.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
I think there is a lot more interest IN magic because of the internet; I also think there are a lot more shoddy magicians out there nowadays BECAUSE of the internet.
I have personally benefited, magically, from the internet- due to the ability to find vast amounts of information quickly, and also due to the ability to connect with other Magi from around the world cheaply and easily. I think the demise of the brick and mortar magic shop is directly related to the rise of the internet- and this fact alone is unforgivable, and permanently d@mns the internet to the lowest pit of hell- in my not so bloody humble opinion... Ultimately one can only answer this question for oneself.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2196 Posts |
Exposure hurts, sure, and this is probably the biggest downside of the internet for magic. But is it possible to make it slightly less painful by trying to be smart about what terminology we use and don't use when performing? For example, if you introduce a routine by saying "this trick is called the McDonald's Aces", you're giving some key words that can be googled by your spectators afterwards. By being careful not to use the specific name, you'll avoid giving your spectators specific identifying information that they can search for later, and they'll go home mystified and talking about "some cool trick where the aces just changed and ended up under my hand." Similarly, don't ever use the name "Out of This World" when performing that effect. This won't stop the larger problem created by the waves of exposure, but might it protect our own secrets from our spectators from the rain of discovery just a little longer?
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daver Elite user Jupiter, FL 436 Posts |
I think more than anything, it has hurt the spectator. Someone sees something they really like. They have an inquiring mind. They go to the net, and blammo, they have the exposure on some site, youtube, or wherever.
Now their curiosity is satisfied, and perhaps they no longer feel like someone duped them. But, for every magic performance they see after that, they're going to look at it not with the sense of entertainment and wonderment, but as a challenge, and knowing some of the basic workings, not be able to enjoy it as entertainment. AND, they're probably going to spoil it for others. It is in this sense I think the net has hurt. The info was always available, but you had to spend $, research, read, what have you. Now, a few mouse clicks while you're taking a break from your Xbox, and you have what people spent lots of energy inventing, perfecting, and performing, just so you can spoil the enjoyment because of curiosity. Someone said to me recently about asking a magician how "it" is done... You don't go up to Billy Joel and ask him how he played that song so well, do you? Why would you ask a magician how they perform their art? Sorry; ranting a little here - it's not the exposure itself, it's human nature and what they do with a little information...
Dave
What's the difference between a magician and a deck of cards? A deck of cards has FOUR suits... |
Mr. Ree Elite user Sedona AZ 414 Posts |
A thing, item, or technology is not inherently
good or bad. It is what people do with it. It will help or hurt magic based on individual choice. Personally I’ve never heard any one say after a performance, I know how that’s done I saw it on TV, YouTube, or whatever.. If fact of all the people that I know that aren’t magicians not one talks about magic unless they have just watched a performance. Only a couple of my non-magician friends are interested in how it was done and they don't think about this more than for a few minutes. Most are happy or not, based on whether they were entertained or not. They aren’t actively reading, watching, or even thinking about magic. I just saw “exposing street magic” on TV for the first time last week. It exposed a shocking amount of methods, gaffs, gimmicks and feke. I was very upset. It looked like I would have to stop working on some of my routines as everyone would know how I did them. I looked through the credits, this atrocity had been filmed in 1999! Nine years ago and I don’t know of one layperson that really noticed or cared. I hadn't noticed this show as a was working my rear end off at the time. Maybe as we look through our magic “magnifying glass” the internet might seem worst than it really is.
An idea can turn to dust or magic, depending on the talent that rubs against it.
---- William Bernbach (1911 - 1982) ---- (After 25 years of PCs, everything switched to Macs, June 2008) |
ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
I agree with Mr. Ree.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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