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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Center deal video (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magician8
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Doc, I read your post, but I also read somewhere that David Ben said he could do the move and was coming out with a book, issue of genii or something like that teaching the move. Doc, it's not that I don't understand ( I'm 13 not an idiot) it's that sometimes I just don't agree.



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magician8
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Quote:
On 2008-02-05 19:56, Mr. Z wrote:
Ben used a duplicate set of aces. The Youtube vid quality there is very bad, if you've seen the original tape it's plainly obvious.

He admitted as such on the Genii boards several years ago, when this was a very hot topic. Great card handler, at any rate.


I also read he left clues for people to see no center deal was being used,


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MagiCaleb
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It was pretty good. What other people are saying is what I'm thinking.

Hey, an idea. What if instead of dealing aces from the middle, deal every card but the aces form the middle, have the aces on top, then when it's your turn, just deal form the the top!

Ive looking into center dealing, bottom dealing, and I think I'm just going to stick with second dealing, although you can get away with a lot more bottom/center dealing.
magician8
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I feel dealing four cards out of the center is too much for a game, I think dealing nine consecutive centers could get me killed, thanks anyway.


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PMVIVA
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I haven't seen so many center deals, but it is always almost the same, or you can see a little step to the side or the deck is not properly squared up or there is mucho movement to take the center card. I've watched Dai Vernon on his revelation tapes teaching the Kennedy Center deal, Marlo´s sidestep center deal and read much of the center deal work Marlo has published in his Seconds, Centers, Bottoms and by far the Kennedy's Center Deal is the best looking and deceiptive.

I've been practising the Weakening's Center Deal and it looks good, the grip is a modified Erdnase Grip the break is hold in the front right corner of the deck, and it is complete covered.

Thanks
Pablo
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Mr. Z
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The number of centers I've seen have been few and far between also. I will say that the best stud center deal I've seen was Andrew Wimhurst's. Best draw center would be Jason England.
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Unknown419
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I agree with Mr. Z regarding Andrew's center deal, it's the best variant of the Allen Kennedy I've seen. I haven't seen Jason's so I can't speak on that. I do like my middle deal a whole lot that's why I didn't learn Andrew's but now that I'm studying Dai Vernon's version that Mr. Kennedy taught him, I am compelled to say that Andrew's variant may be the best to date because of two reasons. 1. Andrew's deck is straight and flushed and his break stays closed and 2. If you can't hold your fingers back and squeeze the deck like Vernon was taught in order to hide the knuckle flash than Andrew's handling and deal is the next best thing. Note: Readers Andrew taught me his center as a trade off for learning to cold deck therefore I'm not just randomly talking about something I know nothing about.

I really do like the Kennedy Center deal as taught by Vernon and Andrew but I would have to change my dealing style in order to do so. I like the uniformity of all of my false deals looking the same and by wanting this, I give up trade-offs in certain areas. What do you mean Doc? To me the Vernon and Andrew center is the perfect middle deal if I were judging it by magician standards. So why do you do yours if you know this? Because of suckers. Suckers always deal the same way because they know nothing else and to me I must always look like a sucker. Think about it, what would you think if you were a card player playing me and I dealt 3 or 4 different ways every time I played you a different game of cards?

StoryTime:

I unconsciously a couple of nights ago while playing the blister I was dealing a kind of sloppy because I was getting used to the feel of playing plastic cards again, but when I stopped cheating the guy I dealt normally. The guy out of no where said "I see you're dealing different now." Oooops is what I said to my self and I said to him sometimes my arthritis lets me deal and sometimes it makes me deal another way because it hurts. I don't have arthritis but this is what I told him. After that deal I went back to dealing my cheating way but I played fair letting the guy beat me because he ripped up the cards in a rage that I previously spoke about he had because he got ****ed because he said I accused him of being a cheater.

You can fool most of the suckers most of the time but you can't fool all suckers all the time.

With that said, my middle deal is slowly evolving into Doc's Raggedy Center. The Raggedy Center? Yes, it's raggedy by magician standards but it's a normal looking deal that I see all the time at a gambling table and it's accepted by all. What do you mean Doc? As I see normal people deal around a table the deck is not always perfectly straight like we always practice with. The top half of the deck is sometimes a little raggedy looking with the cards a bit over the front or to the side of the deck and when the sucker finishes dealing he/she straightens up the deck and places it on the table or spread the cards; what's unnatural about this? I know you all have seen this if you play cards a lot.

So why must our deck not have a break in it? It's because we've been brainwashed subconsciously into believing that everything must be a perfect illusion by magician standards and that is not true. Yes it will definitely look better like 60% of the regular dealers in the world but what about the other 40%. If the 60% can accept the 40% of dealers as being normal why not us? Why must our deck always be perfectly straight in every way?

60% to 70% of the card players in the world deal the cards in their hands and not flat on the table as the casino dealer does but we accept that as well at a card table. As a matter of fact when some people see you dealing that way they ask "hey are you a professional dealer?"

The bottom line is this, it is my conclusion that we should look like the players at all times and stop letting that which the magicians do hinder our progress in advancing the art of cheating. You see Gary Plant went another way of doing the Zarrow shuffle and look what it has become today; a real card table move which defy detection and fools the eyes when done properly.

Be on the watch out for Doc's Raggedy Center.



Take care,

Doc
magician8
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But doc, you said that in seconds and bottoms the deck is straight so why shouldn't the deck be straight in a center deal.



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h2o
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During a game, to use a center deal, this idea of deliberately taking advantage of dealing sloppy with a ragged deck seems interesting. Maybe especially with the use of plastic cards.
Makes me think of something I've read somewhere, don't remember exactly but if you just can't hide something then just make it more obvious and nobody will pay attention to it.
tommy
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Jack of all trades and master of none. To master the middle deal good enough to fly at the table I think one would have think of it like a trade. I think it would be a job for a specialist in other words. I don't like the look of it at all to be honest.
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I'm not a center deal amateur or specialist, and in no way I don't want to get involved in endless arguing about whether or not the center deal is/has/how/can/could be used in real games, but, ass kissing apart, I just think that doc's point here is interesting, and I like his way of thinking.
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If one was a specialist centre dealer then one would hold the deck the same way always, perhaps in a ragetty fashion, always and it would not look unusual then peerhaps. That would take time to plant that in their heads for them to except it. Just picking the deck up and holding it in raggetty way is going to look strange if before you have holding it square.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Unknown419
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Tommy you are absolutely right if that person changes their dealing style but I'm not talking about that. I'm only calling the deal raggedy because it's not totally held together like some people hold the deck. Tommy you can't tell me that you haven't seen people holding the deck like this in your game?

Doc
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Quote:
On 2008-02-20 02:00, Unknown419 wrote:
Tommy you are absolutely right if that person changes their dealing style but I'm not talking about that. I'm only calling the deal raggedy because it's not totally held together like some people hold the deck. Tommy you can't tell me that you haven't seen people holding the deck like this in your game?

Doc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex3qd7zrSAA

I'm in the beginning stages of this new middle deal that I came up with but once I get my rhythm down pat and I readjust my take I'll be okay.

Signed

Reluctant to put this up but I need help too. Note: These playing cards are much thicker than Bee or Bicycles but I have to practice with every kind of deck.
tommy
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Cool Doc. I think that one looks better than the first because it’s not so raggedy. Yes I have seen the deck held in many ways by the average guy in games where the players are dealing themselves. Most casino poker players are clumsy with the cards if and when they are ever asked to deal. Some say you must hold the deck the same way when your dealing Seconds, Bottoms and Centers. Maybe but say a lot of Mechanics are specialists in one or the other anyway and would never do all three so that does matter to them as they would always have the same grip. A Center dealer in particular would likely be a specialist since the thing would require hours of practice each day to it good enough and there is a limit to hours in a day. He would develop a grip and stick to it and guys would get used to seeing him deal that way. However that first video looks like he is cheating, it's just too obvious and wouldn't fly anywhere in my opinion. Not so much the deal but the set up.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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h2o
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Just to help, I'd say that the completion of the cut, the handling of the deck and the deal looks fair, in a quite usual standard way. But regarding the center deal action, besides the fact that when looking a video is always not as clear as watching in plain view, right now I'd find really hazardous to do it more than one card in a round deal, and more than just a very few times in the long run.
Besides that, I've absolutely no ideas or hint for any technical help.
magician8
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Doc, I think your deal looks great, especially your setup, your take might be the only thing I would work on.


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magician8
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Doc, I remember you did a nice step cente, what happened with it?


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Unknown419
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Magician8 thanks for the compliment and for your advise of which I already knew but to answer your other question nothing happened to it I'm just trying new things out. Readers MagicKim PM'd and gave me some advise of which I will be working on. I will appreciate any other advise as well if ya'll have any because when we all are starting out learning something new we look a little stink.

For the record Steve didn't like my Infinity Pass only because it was in it's beginning stages.

Thanks for writing Magician


Doc
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Quote:
On 2008-02-20 08:51, h2o wrote:
Just to help, I'd say that the completion of the cut, the handling of the deck and the deal looks fair, in a quite usual standard way. But regarding the center deal action, besides the fact that when looking a video is always not as clear as watching in plain view, right now I'd find really hazardous to do it more than one card in a round deal, and more than just a very few times in the long run.
Besides that, I've absolutely no ideas or hint for any technical help.


h2o your opinion about my deal was absolutely correct in all details as I've would have said to you if you would have put something up; that has to be respected. You held no punches and I thank you. But Doc? How can a man learn and improve if his friends lie or keep lying to him.

Thanks for the kind advise


Take care,

Doc
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