No "battles" coming from me.

I let my little friend karma do my fightin'

I was only concerned with him using my "ad copy" verbatim. He has changed it now so se la vie.

Thanks to everyone for jumping in to support me!

DT3

That just sums it up beautifully!

I really feel like crying after reading this thread....

:cry:

Amazing Magic Trick going on here?

In the last two years I have tried to help a lot of unknown talent get their ideas to the Magic World at great expense I might add. But, the more I seemed to do for some of these individuals the more they seemed to want or be willing to take. The consequences of their inflated ego's was that I was not paying well or that I have some other alterior motive which is nothing further from the truth. The reasons for people no longer being with Precision Magic is at the choice of those individuals. Christopher Williams was released to persue his own ideas and endeavors.

I have tolerated people trying to raid my company and run me out of business because of their hatred towards me, my company and the products that we make. I have watched as others stole my ideas and adopted them as their own with no thought of the friendships that they claimed we possessed. Then in the same breath try and defame me by saying I stole their idea or somehow treated them unfairly.

It never ceases to astound me, that every time I come out with a new product the same people are more than willing to convict me of a crime that is yet to even be proven to exist and with claims of ownership. To Mr. Theo; I appologise for using your ad copy and I hope that you will accept that I made a mistake and was not trying to be malicious towards you or your fine Ideas. I have no clue what your product is all about, as I understand it, its a manuscript.

As to Cry Baby.... its a real product that allows you to cry one tear or a whole mountain of tears at any given moment. It happens to come with two effects by Eric Simmantis, just to give you some ideas. Cry Baby was in development as a single part of our Exorcism Project which was bought and paid for over a year and a half ago. Since their was some small problems with Exorcism I decided to release Cry Baby as a stand alone effect.

Well understatements of the year!!!! HEHEHEHE!

Dave, there is already a product that helps people cry. It's a menthol type balm that you wipe under your eyes. It's carried by Stein makeup and costs about $5.


Do you think that using his ad copy might just be an indication why others don't treat you well? I think that is stealing actually.
James

Exorcism was something that I was helping you with, and the way the tears were originally done was not how it is taught in 'Cry Baby'.
'Cry Baby' uses the way that I used, and even that was not something that I would have included anywhere without permission etc as it's been used elsewhere.

Also I believed you when it came to others taking advantage of you etc, but for me it feels the other way around now.
I feel you took advantage of me...
I helped you without ever asking or wanting anything... anyway I'm not getting into this stuff on the Café' as no good will come of that.

'Cry Baby' is definitely not something that has even been remotely thought through, the method is definitely not that from the original Exorcism, and the two routines from Eric feel tacked on and poor.

Anyway, I'm through with this topic... I'll only respond now if I really feel I have to.
I hope that as many people as possible stay away from 'Cry Baby' though, it really doesn't deserve to do well and there are others who should be rewarded and recognised for there creativeness and work.

This will be the very last time I respond to this topic or any other on this Café.

Well John, since you want it down and dirty.... You didn't invent the crying idea at all as it was developed long ago. As to your deception to the public. I was told by someone that you would be leaving Precision Magic of your own accord in a few months to start your own little business with another magician. Since, there was some trust issues brought up by another company you decided to leave as you were caught in a bold face lie. Now you want everyone to believe that good old Dave Mann some how ripped you off. Well Sir, you may want to get back on your meds buddy cause you invented squat when it comes to the tears. I have written transcripts of every conversation I ever had with you and any of the people who want to come on this Café and continue this ridiculous charade of lies.

With all that said.... I beg of you to quit buying my Products if you feel this way about me and my company. I would just like to thank James Clark for giving me the Heads up, on some of the people in my company being less than scrupulous.

Well I hope you guys are able to bury hatchets and carry on.

As mentioned before, I have no battles here and wish everybody the best of luck with their endeavors.

Mr. Mann, thank you for your expedience in removing my words from your product description. I must admit it was a little flattering to be cut and pasted. (wow, that's sounds like a wild afternoon! Not quite as messy as being tarred and feathered.)

Finally, for the record, the technique in the Teardrop Ebook uses no chemicals, gimmicks, dual reality, card sleights, hypnotism, trap doors, or rubber chickens.

Plus there are seven other items in the book and weekly supplements to keep the experience going way beyond the first read.
Those who have this will vouch for me that I seriously do teach you how to drop the tear(s) for real.

Hey everyone, don't forget...wicked Lunar Eclipse tonight at 10:01 est!

DT3

This is my final piece aime towards Dmann... it's funny and annoying at the same time... funny because of how untrue everything you seem to be stating is, but annoying because you may actually fool some people.

Those who trust my opinion... please, don't support a company like his.

As for Black's... I am not, and never have been, worried about them. I have no problems with them, but they had absolutely nothing to do with me leaving... I left because I wanted to.
I am glad that there were problems you were having with Black's as I had found out some things I had not known, and if they had any part in affecting my decision to leave then they have done me a huge favour.
But it was something I decided on my own, and for my own reasons.

I had written a massive post going into everything, but pressed delete and it went back a page (this has happened when writing reviews and is not very fun lol).
This was probably for the best as it would have just gotten deleted anyway, and would have maybe got others involved which is not fair to them.

I had to reply something as you are twisting things about Black's to make it seem like any of that was about me, when we both know the truth.
I am happy for Blacks to make public anything and everything, though there is really no need as it'll just get deleted... but I'm not against everything being made public... then you can't lie and decieve others.

I am not happy that I was a part of precision, but can be happy that I have nothing more to do with them.

And no worries about me buying any of your products... if I want untested, unresearched, hurridly put together material then I know where to come... but I'm not really interested in that sorta thing.

As for 'Cry Baby'... what exactly did you create for it? I mean I know it's not the routines as they are Erics... I know it's not the actual tears as that is something you were told, and it's def not your original Exorcism method... I know it's not research time as if so you would have credits from a few individuals, and would have found that it's not something original... I know it was not thinking up the idea itself as that's just an exact copy of DTIII's... I know it's not the writing it up as Eric told me he had done it...
Hmmmmm, what input must you have had... oh, I know... you will be sending it out... whoa what a great contribution, such a good reason to call it your own.

I wish you really did have transcripts of every conversation... that would be amazing as then instead of me writing this stuff you could just post them and everyone could understand and see for themselves what your really like.
So instead of a threat that would infact be a gift as I would love to have transcripts... it'd be watching you commit business suicide as if the transcripts were real, no one would want any part of your business again.

The only thing magic about precision is that mugs like me fall for all the crap you spout.

This has turned into another lengthy post, but this really is the last thing in this thread from me.
I know you'll post back spurting more lies etc, but won't ramble anymore as ive already wasted far too much of my time and energy on you.

Man - this is better than the Soaps

Far be it from me to dogpile on people who are getting slammed but I do have to say after watching a number of threads over the past couple of years regarding Precision Magic, I feel the need to step up for a second.

And for the record….I think the topic of this thread “Cry Baby” is ironic based on the sour grapes response from David and the I am taking my ball and going home attitude.

First off, I will disclose up front that I do not own or use any Precision Magic items. So I want to be honest that my assessment is based mostly on observation. I did look at and handle the Convertible Hot Rod as I was intrigued by it but frustrated that it did not live up to specific questions that David was asked in private messages and basically misled the buyer on.

David complains that people want to run down his business and accuse him of subpar business practices. Well, let me just visit a couple of incidents that I am aware of and help David understand why some feel this way and should he want to improve his business in the future, it will give him some food for thought.

When the Convertible Hot Rod was released, a demo video was posted showing an “instant” change. Problem is, the change was never as instant as the video showed. Most of the people who jumped to David’s defense turned out to be people who were friends or soon to be associates of his. Only after constant prodding by the very respectable John Mendoza did David disclose that the demo video was filmed on the hood of a hot car, which triggered the “instant” change. When asked specifically how the Hot rod would be for resetting in strolling gigs prior to purchase, David said instantaneous, with no problems and very convenient. When this was disputed later, his response was carry hot packs in your pants and a glass of water to dip it in. I find this ridiculous. To his credit, he offered a refund, but my friend decided it was not worth the hassle of shipping back. And to this day….I am still waiting to see Steve Brooks review of the Hot Rod that David kept promising.

A few months later, he partnered with a “fresh new mind in magic” and released a self tying shoelace. Instead of perfecting a routine, or attempting to audience test it, it was shown to David and rushed into production in less than a couple weeks. Early complaints were that the instructions were shoddy, incomplete and the routine was not all that great. All that was needed here was an honest assessment if the routine was new, audience tested and how it could be improved. But rather than doing that (and I predict knowing a professional routine featured by Blaine was about to be commercially released) Precision Magic made an unwise decision to rush a product to market in about a weeks time. The solution for this was to reshoot a video and send out all “new and improved” instructions with an apology they would do better next time.

In the last couple of months, two more examples of products being released that were attributed to others with no real improvements. One, David decided to remove from his inventory when this came to light, but again….where was his research before deciding to release it????

At the end of the day, you can take your hot rods and canes and color change materials and pout and go home, but I hope you realize some day; a lot of us look for integrity in the people we choose to buy from and do business with. Rushing products to market without taking the time to test them, research them, credit them and then on more than a few occasions having to issue apologies, new videos, new instructions or removing said product from inventory line makes us question your business practice and ethics.
So….long story short, don’t mean to dogpile, but should you decide to release future products, I hope a little of this goes a long way.

Just my opinion.

Facta non verba, mendacem memorem esse oportet. Respondeat superior; respice, adspice, prospice. Veritas vos liberabit.

De minimis non curat praetor. Dixi.

James

What does this mean???

Thanks
Frank

From latin to english using a translator:

Facta not lashing , fault mindful to be it behooves. To answer above ; to turn attention to adspice , to see from a distance. Truthfulness you free. About in the least degree not attention past. Dixi.

Actually :

a liar must have a good memory. The truth will set you free. The supervisor/owner must take responsibility for everything. I don't concern myself with such trivial things. I have spoken, now the rest of you shut up.

:D

Staying on topic, is it me, or has this not been a repeat of other things put out by Precision?

I mean really....just do not buy from him if you feel it is a ripoff. Verbatim? Look at MM....I rest my case

Actually guys, allow me to take a stab at it.

Deeds not words. A liar needs a good memory. Examine the past, examine the present, examine the future. The truth will set you free.

The last sentence can be used in different ways. I think it is this. From one who does not care about petty matters. Maybe James can grade us lol

Jclark, if the translation by Irishghost is accurate, do you consider theft a petty matter?

I just asked him if I was close, and I was, until the last sentence. Please read what I wrote, I said the end part can mean different things. Combine Macs and mine, and you will get the jist. Now, lets get back to the ethics end of things.