The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Does magic get in the way of the message? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1794 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Andre' Kole believes that the effect can over power the message. This is one of the reasons his magical illustration during the spiritual portion of his show is a smaller scale effect than the large scale illusions he presents during the other portion of his show.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
Great insight folks...if the emphasis is on the magic, then yes it can mute the message we are trying to teach, but if we use magic as a tool to illustrate scriptures, with the emphasis on the word, then it becomes another good tool amongst many to help open the up the word to people...
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-02-20 22:27, Terry Holley wrote:
Andre' Kole believes that the effect can over power the message. This is one of the reasons his magical illustration during the spiritual portion of his show is a smaller scale effect than the large scale illusions he presents during the other portion of his show.

Terry


God's Word is too poweful for any Illusion. You can present the Gospel doing small scale effects and large scale effects, the larger scales may be a bit harder but it can be done. Just try it.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
You can make the messages very obvious or very suttle, causing the viewers to think.

The small scale effects are best if the message is very obvious and too the point.

Large scale effects are best if the message is hidden but can be found. Terry Evanswood and Kirby Van Birch are masters at this.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Hi ibm_usa,

just a friendly suggestion first. Perhaps you can keep your comments in one post rather than breaking it into two or more, only minutes apart.

Why would you want to be very subtle with God's Word and take a huge chance that the message will not be heard? Just my opinion but I believe the message should be very clear, easy to understand so there's no mistake of misinterpretating it, and it should be very obvious. I also don't think we should be playing hide and seek with the message of Christ.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2008-02-21 12:17, ibm_usa wrote:

Large scale effects are best if the message is hidden but can be found. Terry Evanswood and Kirby Van Birch are masters at this.



If you look at it in a certain way a great many illusions automatically contain a biblical "hidden message". Every vivisection and torture routine is built around the concept of death and resurrection. Unfortunately this classic this theme isn't reserved for Christianity alone. It is an ancient archetype found in many ancient stories and belief systems. So if you hide the message you could inadvertently lead your audience to follow Mithra or one of the other multitudes of Man\Gods who have walked the earth rather than your deity of choice.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2008-02-20 21:31, ibm_usa wrote:

No, There is nothing on this planet, in this whole universe that is powerful enough to totally distract those who are wanting to hear God's word from having the chance!



Perhaps I'm not wanting to hear God's word but most of the Gospel presentations I've seen or read distract one from the message by diluting it. I even found Andre Kole's light bulb trick a distraction from the message he was trying to deliver. The film he played of the testimony of the young woman who was later to be killed in a school shooting did more to demonstrate the benefits of belief for some than any trick I've ever seen could do
.
Actions speak louder than words and words of personal testimony are better than magic tricks.
Use the magic to get them in to hear the words and see the actions.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-02-21 13:10, Gospel Dan wrote:
Hi ibm_usa,

just a friendly suggestion first. Perhaps you can keep your comments in one post rather than breaking it into two or more, only minutes apart.

Why would you want to be very subtle with God's Word and take a huge chance that the message will not be heard? Just my opinion but I believe the message should be very clear, easy to understand so there's no mistake of misinterpretating it, and it should be very obvious. I also don't think we should be playing hide and seek with the message of Christ.


Sorry.

The use of making the message subtle or obvious is a personal choice. I've seen Gospel Presentations presented in a subtle manner , a lot of movies have subtle messages in them, so do a lot of stories. Christ's parables, when told at first were subtle and He had to explain them to his disciples for they have not recieved wisdom to understand them ( That was before Christ's Resurrection.)

A lot of Kirby Van Birch's illusions have subtle Gospel messages in them.

Sorry for not making myself clear, if you are going to be very subtle, give some hints during the presentation or explain it at the end.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
When someone's house is on fire, it's not time to be subtle
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Thanks Terry. You took the words right out of my mouth. I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where God or Jesus was subtle.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
FriarShaun
View Profile
New user
New Mexico
80 Posts

Profile of FriarShaun
I think doing gospel magic is twice as difficult. First, it is subject to poor performance and sorrowful skills just like the rest of magic, but second it can also be subject to poor application. I know that I have been guilty of trying to force a great trick into a spiritual application so I could use it. The trick was great, but the application was corny.

I have to admit I agree with Payne (and that is truly payneful) Personal testimony, and straight preaching of the truth is more powerful than gospel magic. However, I think magic is a great vehicle to connect with people and establish a rapor. We all know that we are sinners, to be pummelled with this ugly truth is valid, but not always prudent. Magic can be the "setting of silver" we use to present the "apples of gold" in.

By the way Payne as an athiest you make a good preacher.
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
Don't encourage him...we have enough people out there making up their own gospel...

I love you Payne....
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Quote:
On 2008-02-23 11:20, FriarShaun wrote:
Magic can be the "setting of silver" we use to present the "apples of gold" in.


I've never heard it said that way before. It's got to be one the best analogies I've ever heard. Thanks for sharing that, I love it!

Quote:
By the way Payne as an athiest you make a good preacher..


I've only been here for a short while, but I come to see that Payne is an asset to this forum. I love it when he posts something that challenges me to look deeper into my faith. He plays an important role here, and God bless him for that.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
Gospel magic was originally created for teaching children and that is probably where it's most effective.
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-02-23 11:20, FriarShaun wrote:
I think doing gospel magic is twice as difficult. First, it is subject to poor performance and sorrowful skills just like the rest of magic, but second it can also be subject to poor application. I know that I have been guilty of trying to force a great trick into a spiritual application so I could use it. The trick was great, but the application was corny.

I have to admit I agree with Payne (and that is truly payneful) Personal testimony, and straight preaching of the truth is more powerful than gospel magic. However, I think magic is a great vehicle to connect with people and establish a rapor. We all know that we are sinners, to be pummelled with this ugly truth is valid, but not always prudent. Magic can be the "setting of silver" we use to present the "apples of gold" in.

By the way Payne as an athiest you make a good preacher.


I have to disagree with both you and Payne; yes it can be a subject to poor application just like all the other arts, but magic is a great way to teach people, because magic is very visual you can easily make a point. I've heard it said that the human brain will only remember a small perportion of what is being said and will remember more from what it sees.

I garuntee you that each one of us can remember the very first magic trick. I am also assure that most of you can barely remember the last word you said last night to a person be it your spouse or a good friend.

Magic is a very effective visual media for communication, I find it a better tool to use then using a song or a sermon... people will remember it more.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
As for preventing a gospel "trick" in becoming a poor application, practice traditional magic before moving into the field of Gospel Magic. Gain basic knowledge of magic. It wouldn't hurt to take a drama or speech and communication class. Also if you are gifted at scripting, do so!

Forgive those who have made Gospel Magic look bad, but I strongly discourage people who delibertly sought to make a bad image of any art, especially Gospel Magic. Practice and rehearse to make the presentation and message as excellent as you can. DO A EXCELLENT JOB! you are putting on a high standard when you enter the field of Gospel Magic, don't do a good job do a excellent job.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-02-23 11:53, Terry Owens wrote:
Gospel magic was originally created for teaching children and that is probably where it's most effective.


True, true, true. I have found that it works best with adults, but if you add humor it will work for kids.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-02-23 11:46, Gospel Dan wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-23 11:20, FriarShaun wrote:
Magic can be the "setting of silver" we use to present the "apples of gold" in.


I've never heard it said that way before. It's got to be one the best analogies I've ever heard. Thanks for sharing that, I love it!

Quote:
By the way Payne as an athiest you make a good preacher..


I've only been here for a short while, but I come to see that Payne is an asset to this forum. I love it when he posts something that challenges me to look deeper into my faith. He plays an important role here, and God bless him for that.


Payne has brought some good insights into this entire website. spend some time to look at some of the stuff Payne has posted, you may learn something! It seems like he knew Einstien and Robert Houdin as well as King Soloman!
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Ibm_usa wrote:
"Magic is a very effective visual media for communication, I find it a better tool to use then using a song or a sermon... people will remember it more."

Can you elaborate on that? From my understanding, you're saying that magic is a better tool to use than using song, or just a sermon? have you ever preached a sermon? Please elaborate, thanks.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-02-23 22:52, Gospel Dan wrote:
Ibm_usa wrote:
"Magic is a very effective visual media for communication, I find it a better tool to use then using a song or a sermon... people will remember it more."

Can you elaborate on that? From my understanding, you're saying that magic is a better tool to use than using song, or just a sermon? have you ever preached a sermon? Please elaborate, thanks.


I'm saying that magic can get and keep the attention of the people your performing for. Its visual, its something that people can look at. Now if the person who is singing or giving the sermon has good experience in communicating verbally, has good people skills and has a likable personallity then song or sermon will be just as good. I'm just saying it will hold attention better.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Does magic get in the way of the message? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.3 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL