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Bodie New user UK 7 Posts |
hey dudes, I was just wandering if any of you bizarre types belive in Real magic (Note: capital 'R')?
Is your art an expression of your belief? When bizarre magicians attempt to present their material as if it were real what are they trying, exactly, to convince thier audience of? what process or causes are supposed to be underlying, for example, a persons ring to float? Just afew questions to stimulate those axons. |
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
There are probably as many different answers to you question, Bodie, as there are magicians!
One of the points of bizarre is that the magicians doesn't have to present his material as if the magic were real. But, if he does, it should be done in such an individual way that, what works for one, would be a disaster for another. cheers, Peter Marucci showtimecol@aol.com |
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Michael Peterson Inner circle is where I'm trapped, because of my 4071 Posts |
I agree with Peter(as always). When I do any kind of bizarre magic, I leave it up to the spectator to decide if it is real or not.
I do my best to present effects in a way that they are not percieved as puzzles, as opposed to regular magic(cards, coins & such). I have never had anyone ask me if my voodoo doll is a trick doll or if I really did find what I'm using at an antique store. While most of the stuff I do works for me, it may be quite uninspiring in someone else's hands. I think when I do any kind of bizarre magic, I'm trying to open the spectator to the possibility of something else than simply a "trick". |
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Marduke Kurios Veteran user Vancouver, Canada 316 Posts |
Hi Bodie,
Great question! Yes, I believe in Real magic. Yes, my art is an expression of my belief. As for trying to convince my audience, I don't really try to. Because I believe, so do they (at least for 30-60 minutes anyway). And as for a cause, I just look to all that is around me for inspiration. -Marduke
Live well,
Laugh often, Love always. To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world. Without Prejudice, All Rights Reserved. |
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
I'll bite. What's Real magic with a capitol R?
Yakworld.
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Zodiac New user WA 27 Posts |
I used to but I've met with disputed results. I'd like to beleive in the kinda stuff I model my effects after, especially life after death but I tend to have the "I'll beleive it when I see it".Attitude. So will see.
What's on your mind?
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Joe Regular user Sunny UK 139 Posts |
I don't do many Bizarre effects as such, but I do enjoy watching others. Some of my stronger mental/Pk effects hopefully leave the spectator with food for thought (like Ichy said), that's what I'am aiming for with this type of effect.
Do I belive in real magic? I belive I create magical experiences for others (especially the kids) and that's real enough for me. Joe |
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Jeb Sherrill Inner circle Elsewhere 1161 Posts |
I tend to do what Ichazod does. I like to perform the magic well and let them decide. I don't believe in magic per se, but I do believe in mysticism, so I know that effects my presentation. I'm a little closer to that kind of thinking when it comes to mentalism though.
Sable
I don't believe in reincarnation, but I may have in another life.
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vovin Veteran user Columbus,Oh 338 Posts |
I have performed ritual magic for many years. I am assuming this is what you mean by real magic and yes it does work often but not always the way you want it to.
As far as discerning magic as in magicians and tricks the word is spelled magic. For the occult version it is spelled magick. If you have interest in this type of path I can reccomend alister crowley's writings as well as Regardie. But I will say no more on that subject. Oftentimes you will find that those who practice magick are not in any way religious. I could spend all day describing how my theories on magick work but in short magick is not as occult as one may thing and that it is merely a way of communicating with your subconcious to aid you in attaining a desired effect. There are many psychologists that conform to this theory and the famous Dr. Carl Gustav Jung based his principles on this. He wrote a very interesting book on his studies called psychology and the so called occult phenomenon. His autobiography "Memoirs Dreams, and Reflections " is also a really good writing on his theories. I wouldn't suggest reading his other books because they are very technical in nature and if you are not very well read you will not understand him. We'll I intended to keep this short but when you get me started on the subject seems I can't shut up. |
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thelastdoctor New user Dayton Ohio/USA 70 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-02-20 12:54, Ichazod wrote: I agree. My best effects have a Character that is the "Mysterious Stranger" sort of label. The most effective effect resolve with the audience wondering if "I" am that stranger. But I love stories and the darker I go the more blurred the line becomes. Slán Warren
The Last Doctor
?who?:stout: I’m always looking for the perfect pint or sugar free Jelly Babies... |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-02-20 07:40, Bodie wrote: Well, when I do bizarre magic, I tend to go the route of it being in the way of an experiment, where something interesting might happen or might not. That way, if I flub, it's been an interesting test and if I succeed, there are often screams and panic (jk). When I worked with Tony Andruzzi on the issue that he was kind enough to put out of my stuff for the Invocation magazine, we talked often and long about just this thing. Tony LIVED the role of the sorcerer in many ways - something most of us can't do. He could be genuinely scary at times and then would pull the rug out from under you with one of his little "occult pranks." Let the audience decide. If asked directly, my answer is usually something like - "It's just something that I seem to be able to do." Spook em hard. Lee Darrow, C.Ht. Hypnotist & magician to Sandals Resorts
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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morgaine_le_fey Veteran user Montreal, Canada 391 Posts |
And another topic revived for no real reason: haven't we seen this same question come back ad infinitum since?
Also strange that so many of the initial spookies aren't active anymore. |
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
Yes, I do real magic and for just a few moments the mourners really believe their loved one is just sleeping. Then they come to their senses and ask me to bury them before they wake up.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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Godzilla Inner circle Tied & Untied Witches on 5316 Posts |
@morgaine_le_fey ... " Let's do the 'Time Warp' again ".
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, morgaine_le_fey wrote: Looks like YOU brought it back up?????
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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JAlenS Inner circle Utah 1526 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 20, 2002, Bodie wrote: A good mentalism act followed by a well presented bizarre piece can look like Real magick. As far as believing in Real magic I don't follow the left hand path but there's something extraordinary about Bill Montana's The Bridge. Some may say it's only directed suggestion but some very strange things have happened when people follow directions. Strange enough that it approaches Real magic or something else. And I just noticed this was originally posted 13 years ago. Laugh |
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Lo Pan Special user Haven't slept in weeks - but I now have 769 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, morgaine_le_fey wrote: Thanks for reviving these old topics - I also love to dig through these old discussions for bits of gold, or ectoplasm as it were. It is sad that many have moved away from the Café, I like to think that there is another forum (or even better a dark smoky room) somewhere where they all convene, far from trolls and petty arguments that occur here from time to time, and just visit us from time to time. |
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morgaine_le_fey Veteran user Montreal, Canada 391 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, Slim King wrote: Call me broken pencil. |
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Christopher Taylor V.I.P. British Columbia Canada 2314 Posts |
This is an important topic and one I have struggled with for decades. The struggle is in how to explain how there is a perspective that can let us see magic as real and happening around us every day. To explain just what that perspective is would require more time, space and writing skill than I have here. Suffice to say that the secret is based on the fact that magic is theatre but that all theatre derives its authenticity from real life. We can see comedy on stage; we recognize it in real life as well, but an event is funny only when seen from the right angle, the correct perspective. And tragedy, easy to recognize on stage and terrible to experience in real life; still, there are ways to see tragedy as humorous or something that, "just is" yet no one questions if it is "real" or not. Magic too has its own distinct shape that is recognizable on stage. And when seen from just the right perspective, magic can be experienced as real too. Of course, magic is real and it's our job to share our view of what it looks like with our audience -- show them its SHAPE -- so that they can experience it as real every day, just as they do comedy and tragedy.
Christopher |
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Nyama Possessor Veteran user Under the Shade Tree 322 Posts |
To believe conveys doubt, I like to say I KNOW in Real Magik... Sad yet true is the reality that Real Magik is all around us, right in front of our eyes at all times, yet that we haven't always been educated or socialized to see it.
- Is it not Real Magik when the Sun physically affects you (sneezes, sunburns, cancer) despite the fact it is 150 million kilometers (93 million miles) from the planet Earth? - Is it not Real Magik that you can get cut deeply, or badly burned and your skin literally heals itself much like a star fish that loses a limb? - Is it not Real Magik that sperm leaves the man's body and with NO map or directions is consciously able to navigate the woman's body (completely foreign to it) and mystically penetrates the ovum (after dancing around the egg seven times). Not to mention that that alchemical process creates a human being!! - Is it not Real Magik that you can make someone smile without even touching them... Literally moving a person's facial muscles without physically touching them. That is genuine TELEKINESIS!!! - Is it not Real Magik that "merw" (pyramids) were build to near perfection, precision and execution in Egypt (Ta-Meri/Kemet) and Sudan (Ta-Seti/Nubia)? Ancient Afrikans were aware the Earth was round, as dictated by an applied mathematics known as geodesics, which was used to build merw (pyramids). - Is it not Real Magik that the Dogon of Mali (the purported descendants of the Kemites/ancient Egyptians) possess advanced astronomical knowledge, and specifically know that Sirius (sigi tolo) has 2 companion stars: the Digitaria star (pō tolo) and the female Sorghum star (ęmmę ya tolo), the first and second companions of Sirius A? And are aware of the rings of Saturn, and the moons of Jupiter WITHOUT the use and assistance of so-called "modern technology"! - Is it not Real Magik that almost every poison or toxin in the world has its "cure/remedy" within 50 feet of it? - Is it not Real Magik that the Sun's light reflects off the surface of the Moon, creating the illusion that the Moon has a light source of its own? - Is it not Real Magik that the gravitational/magnetic pull of the Moon regulates the ocean tides as well as keeping a 28 day waxing and waning cycle, in harmonious rhythm with 28 day ebb and flow cycle of a woman's menstruation? - Is it not Real Magik that one can build a plane and safely fly through the air like a bird? - Is it not Real Magik that our digestive system can covert an apple into blood? - Is it not Real Magik that a seed is pushed into the ground and it brings forth a tree which bears fruit/food? - Is it not Real Magik that some amputee victims suffer from PLS (Phantom Limb Syndrome), and experience itching sensations and pain located in the space that used to occupy their missing limb? - Is it not Real Magik that amputee victims suffering from Phantom Limb Syndrome can look into a properly positioned mirror for an hour a day, which creates the illusion that their "missing" limb is STILL there, and be cured of PLS? Tony Andruzzi (Masklyn ye Mage) said it best, “What man knows he calls Science. What he has yet to learn he calls Magick. Both are real!” Do I believe in Real Magik??? Ha! Emphatically YES!!! (yet I don't consider myself a "bizarrist", lol). For some of us here, our Magik IS Real, meaning it: inspires, empowers, encourages, challenges, questions, motivates, enchants and uplifts... In that sense we are striving to convince our participants and audience to expand their consciousness, to open their mind to alternative realities and to other ideas and thoughts. And also that there are mysteries in Life that standard science/psychology can't and doesn't ultimately explain... Whereas Universal/Cosmic Law, Metaphysics and Quantum Mysticism (aka The Sciences of Real Magik) can and do explain. People tend to make this argument too complex (Real Magik VS Illusion)... Real Magik doesn't have to be controlling or modifying the weather or making UFOs appear (yet it can). Real Magik can be as simple as making someone's day better, or providing them with an in-sight they hadn't thought of before... A Real Mage is one who is a conduit and/or intermediary between the Heavens (unknown/above) and the Earth (material/physical/terrestrial/below) hence the Kemetic/Hermetic axiom "As above, so below; as below so above" (The Universal Principle of Correspondence). Put another way, a Real Mage acts as a bridge between the Spiritual Realm and the Physical one. This is going to probably draw some haters, yet "Bizarre Magik" has become too commercial in my opinion, it has lost its foundation and the true meaning of Real Magik. It now finds itself mainly confined to horror and halloween themes, and has a history of producing effects which incorporate impractical methods, relegated to the proverbial methodological "armchair" ...(This is just my opinion though, you are free to have your own). Should we really be surprised that the "greats" and master creators/performers have chosen to dwell in OTHER numerous, more practical forums??... I'm not surprised (as I myself only come here to network and check out the latest news). Moreover, many of the great Elders ARE still around, yet are not continuing to fall victim to the BS on the Café (which has degraded into a crass materialistic cesspool in my personal opinion). Now don't get me wrong the Café DOES serve a purpose! I enjoy the Café for certain things... However it is not like it was in '04, that's for sure! For those who ARE interested in Magic, yet who also seek its marriage with Real Magik, check out the Underground Forum over at Alchemy Moon. Nuff said. Advancing the Magik, from Under the Shade Tree... Guidance and Protection, ~ Nyama ~
The Honorable NYAMA POSSESSOR
Co-Founder & Co-Creator of MAGICAL REALISM, Owner of ANCESTRAL REALM PRODUCTIONS * 17 Year Member of the Shadow Network * ICBM Alumnus * Creator/Author of SUMMONING RUMI and numerous other underground proprietary releases... Books, routines and tools coming soon, available only and exclusively at www.AlchemyMoon.com |
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