We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Real magic (39 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
gothicmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Ubiquitous
1320 Posts

Profile of gothicmagic
It's called suspension of disbelief , we are not charlatans for giving people the experience they seek, if we twist that into a religion or seek to fleece them out of hard earned items then yes. But if they come to see a Supernatural or haunted show why ruin the illusion that moment of what if that they as the audience have of their feel will chosen to participate in, it would be like standing outside a Haunted attraction screaming it's not real, or doing the same as children visit the Easter bunny. The real magic is that intangible moment of suspense,wonder, shock that diverts the scientific part of the brain and tells it what if
how horrible it would be if after a show someone came on and said this has all been an illusion and if you believed you're pretty stupid for being fooled
Neither claim, proclaim, or disavow let them decide for themselves
Vlad ^0^
One of The Founding Fathers of The East Coast Spirit Sessions & Co Producer of Bizarre hauntings
ECSS I,II,III,IV,V,VI
Order of the Hexidic
Godzilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Tied & Untied Witches on
5316 Posts

Profile of Godzilla
Real magic is, "MAGICK" ! Smile
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
Darkness
View Profile
Inner circle
1479 Posts

Profile of Darkness
Ha ok Slim I'll bite. What magic is real exactly? Maybe that is the bigger question?

Unicorns and dragons, telekinesis, mind reading, how the ball goes through the cup or the rings link, the caramel in the chocolate bar? All of it or just the ones of interest that day? And how are you so sure, other than that is what you believe? Wouldn't it be more fair to say its possible magic exists instead of saying you definitively know for sure? Or do you feel it never needs to be proven. In saying so, there is nothing for science to catch up to.

I would also say suspension of disbelief to enjoy the illusion would be a start...
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17684 Posts

Profile of Slim King
DeJa Vu was my first experience of Real Magick and it is shared by as many as 90% of the human race. Scientists have had decades to research, probe, study, dissect, confer and try to agree on how this is possible, yet they do not agree. So IMHO science needs to catch up to the reality that DeJa Vu happens, it happens a lot, and it happens to almost everyone. (Even blind people)

There are many other examples but I'll just use that one as the first demonstration.

And for Godzilla .... Magick is real. Science needs to catch up! (Now on to watch the next episode of FRINGE! Smile )
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
I experience deja vu every time I read one of Slim's posts.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Sir
View Profile
Loyal user
209 Posts

Profile of Sir
Sorry, for the delayed response, had a beautiful baby girl on Monday.

Darkness, when I said that "supernatural magic has no compelling evidence for its existence," I chose my words very carefully. I said it precisely that way because I wanted to emphasize that I am not making the claim "real magic does not exist." Even though it is highly improbable, rarely do we ever have absolute knowledge to make absolute statements. Since I am not making any positive claims, I have no burden of proof. It's up to the person making the claim that "supernatural magic is real" to demonstrate that it is, not the other way around. Show me compelling evidence for such a claim and I would eagerly change my mind.

Slim King has brought forth Deja Vu as his evidence and he is correct to say that the phenomenon is not fully understood yet, however, just because we don't know the answer does not mean he is vindicated in concluding that Deja Vu is supernatural. By doing so, he is simply filling the ever-shrinking gaps in human knowledge with more unsubstantiated claims. Every explanation for every deep mystery that mankind has solved has turned out to be "not magic." If I'm wrong, somebody please show me the hypothesis, whereby the best possible explanation turned out to be magic.

That being said, I agree with you that you don't have to believe magic is real to enjoy it. I liked the movie Star Wars, but that does not mean I have to believe any of it is real. I love medieval church music, but that hardly makes me a Christian. I love magic, even if is nothing more than your expert ability to exploit flaws in my cognition. And there is nothing wrong with enjoying things at face value. 😃
"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes."
Darkness
View Profile
Inner circle
1479 Posts

Profile of Darkness
There is zero burden of proof needed on either side to have an opinion or discussion. I can show you the magic without doing anything magical. You are free to choose whatever you want to believe and that is real magic..
miistermagico
View Profile
Regular user
154 Posts

Profile of miistermagico
Nature comes up with surprises that far exceed those that the human mind can generate.
Sir
View Profile
Loyal user
209 Posts

Profile of Sir
Darkness, a burden of proof is needed only if the person making a claim wants it to be believed by others. What I was getting at earlier was that a person cannot say, "Magic is real, prove that it isn't." That is known was "shifting the burden of proof," which is faulty logic.

If you perform an effect and you leave it up to the audience to decide about what they see, there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Charlatans are the folks who never intend for the act to end - those who actively claim that performance magic is supernatural. (Basically the knuckleheads that Houdini and James Randi exposed)

As a skeptic, I initially struggled with this. How could I reconcile my love of Halloween and all things spooky with my disdain for real-world superstition and credulity? In the end I simply paraphrase the old saying about Halloween being the time of year when the lines between fact and fiction begin to blur. It's a celebration of mans triumph over superstition. When creatures come out to play with gullible minds.
"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes."
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Quote:
On Jan 13, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Nature comes up with surprises that far exceed those that the human mind can generate.

Nature is, as the name indicates, nature--not supernature.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Darkness
View Profile
Inner circle
1479 Posts

Profile of Darkness
What was once supernatural is now natural.
morgaine_le_fey
View Profile
Veteran user
Montreal, Canada
391 Posts

Profile of morgaine_le_fey
I like to see it as a balance in the Force.
Like poetic justice.
Or synchronicity (any way you wish to experience it/ explain it/debunk it).
Nature - nurture...
Life could very well be a compromise between both. Still today.

Smile

In our realm, many studies have shown that people that hadn't been raised in a 'fairytale-telling culture' (I oversimplify the anthropological jargon) as a child, were not suggestible to storytelling (and all practical solutions at work or in life such projections offer) as adults. Also, the neural connections in the brains of an alpha (once upon a time...) and beta (...) group were radically different.
Level of education and social background are also an infuence of course.
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2016, Darkness wrote:
What was once supernatural is now natural.

What is natural was always natural. "Supernatural" was a faulty interpretation of the human mind.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Darkness
View Profile
Inner circle
1479 Posts

Profile of Darkness
Next you will be telling the hundred's of millions on this planet there is no invisible man, just because you believe. I guess it's one or the other, pick a side...

BTW How do you know "exactly"?
Louis Cypher
View Profile
Veteran user
356 Posts

Profile of Louis Cypher
(12 Monkeys) taking about germs.
In the eighteenth century, no such thing, nada, nothing. No one ever imagined such a thing. No sane person, anyway. Along comes this doctor, Semmelweis, comes along. He's trying to convince people, well, other doctors mainly, that's there's these teeny tiny invisible bad things called germs that get into your body and make you sick. Ah? He's trying to get doctors to wash their hands. What is this guy? Crazy? Teeny, tiny, invisible? What do you call it? Uh-uh, germs? Huh? What? Now, cut to the 20th century. Last week, as a matter of fact, before I got dragged into this hellhole. I go in to order a burger in this fast food joint, and the guy drops it on the floor. he picks it up, he wipes it off, he hands it to me like it's all OK. "What about the germs?" I say. He says, "I don't believe in germs. Germs is just a plot they made up so they can sell you disinfectants and soaps." Now he's crazy, right? See?
Darkness
View Profile
Inner circle
1479 Posts

Profile of Darkness
Yup, he is crazy because we can prove germs. The invisible man not so much. Not saying I believe either way on that one or other such supernatural things. I don't have all the answers like some others. But then again I didn't drink any koolaid. If anyone one can explain exactly how they know I would be interested in hearing facts. Otherwise it's he said she said and we just need to accept that and have fun theorizing.
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
I'll gladly accept an invisible man if there is reliable evidence for his existence.
The closest I've seen to date is special-effects movies and experimental military camouflage technology.
From the standpoint of camo and "black art" we HAVE had invisible men--under the right conditions.
Keep in mind that the burden of proof for an extraordinary claim is on the party that proposes it, and not on the rest of the world to disprove it.
As for germs-- microbiology was proven through the invention of the Microscope.
Obviously, germs existed before we could see them but, until the germ theory was proven, it was logically reasonable for one to be able to dismiss it.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Gaunt
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of Gaunt
[quote]On Jan 13, 2016, Sir wrote:
Sorry, for the delayed response, had a beautiful baby girl on Monday.

Congratulations on the birth of your daughter.
Darkness
View Profile
Inner circle
1479 Posts

Profile of Darkness
"burden of proof for an extraordinary claim is on the party that proposes it". Will that debate lead to anything constructive in the end with the person who stated what hasn't been proven? Is it a worth while conversation with them to debate beliefs or would it be a benefit to focus on other comments in the thread that could have deeper value?

So you need evidence to believe, ok. You mention it's logically reasonable if it hasn't been proven yet (germs) then it could be dismissed (sure). Could it also mean that if there is no reliable evidence of the supernatural or real magick "yet" it's plausible it could still be proven real? Not likely but a chance? So neither side can claim it one way or the other? Right?
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
One could prove the "supernatural" phenomenon by discovering and demonstrating the mechanism behind it, at which time it becomes established as part of the natural order.
Until that happens, the phenomenon is still in the realm of mere speculation.
I can't prove ghosts don't exist (proving a negative), but until someone proves they do, I can reasonably conclude they don't.
As for discussing what hasn't been proven--that's called 'speculation,' which is fine, but not to be confused with fact.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Real magic (39 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.14 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL