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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Three Shell Game? Is it hard? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dave V
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Keith,
See if any of these IBM Rings are anywhere close to you:

Canton, North Carolina
Ring 344 - The Western Wizards of North Carolina
When: 3rd Sunday of each month at 1:30pm
Location: Canton Public Library, Canton,N.C. 28716
Contact: Michele Medford, PO Box 602
Phone: 828-648-5906
Email: michelemedford@yahoo.com



Charlotte, North Carolina
Ring 296 - C
When: 3rd Tuesday of the month at 7:30
Location: Fire Mountain Grill, Concord, NC
Contact: Greg Zeleznik, 601 Merton Woods Ln. Charlotte, NC 28173, 704-281-2698
Email: greg@zelnikthemagician.com



Fayetteville, North Carolina
Ring 341 - All American Magicians
When: 3RD Monday of each month at 7:00 PM
Location: 307 McArthur Rd, Fayetteville, NC 28311
Contact: John McCauley, 3590 Blanchard Rd, St. Pauls, NC 28384
Phone: 910-865-2651
Email: jmccauley@insect.com



Greensboro, North Carolina
Ring 340 - The Piedmont Triad Magic Club
When: Meets 2nd Wednesday of the month at 7:30pm
Location: Greensboro Airport Holiday Inn, just off I-40 (at exit 210) & NC 68, 6428 Burnt Poplar Road, Greensboro
Contact: Tony Econ, 2015 Stonewood Drive, Winston-Salem, NC 27103-4763
Phone: (336) 760-4407



Raleigh, North Carolina
Ring 199 - Wallace Lee - Dick Snavely Ring
When: 1st Monday & 3rd Thursday of each month at 7pm
Location: New Horizons Fellowship Church, 820 E. Williams St.., Apex, North Carolina, http://www.nhf.cc
Contact: Tom Beaman, 5210 Carr Rd, Wilson, NC 27893
Phone: 252-243-9848
Email: tbeamanjr@aol.com
Web Site: http://www.magician.org/member/raleigh



Wilmington, North Carolina
Ring 248 - Coastal Carolina Conjurors, Del Ray Ring
When: 3rd Wednesday of each month at 7:00pm, except (no meetings) for July & August
Location: UNCW Campus, Randall Parkway & College Road, Wilmington, N. C.
Contact: Harold Uretsky, 1505 Village Drive
Phone: 910-799-1741
Email: HUretsky1@ec.rr.com
Web Site: http://members.aol.com/wilmingtonmagic/index.htm
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sethb
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Keith -- to get back to your basic question for a minute, my opinion is that the shells are tougher than the Cups & Balls for one reason.

With the C&B, you will have a set routine, in that you know where the balls are and exactly where they are going to be at any given time. Even when the specs are given a "choice" to pick a cup, as in the 2-0-2 move, it is a "Magician's Choice," there is really no choice at all. So you don't need to worry or think about what the audience says or does, the routine always stays the same, you can focus on the presentation and entertaining the audience.

That's not necessarily true with the shells, in which the specs are often given a choice of shell. So you need to remember not only where the pea is, but also where it's supposed to be (but isn't), and how you are going to get it to its final destination. All this while giving the specs a free choice of shell and pattering on about something or other. I'm not saying it's impossible to present an entertaining shells routine, just that in my opinion, it is a lot tougher to keep all this in your head at one time, and that it would probably take more time and practice to master than a comparable C&B routine would.

The pea moves are not that tough, probably on a par with the basic C&B moves, although as Bill Palmer has said, the principle and method is completely different. But I think learning and performing a routine with the shells would be much tougher because of the above uncertainty, just my two cents here.

I also agree that the C&B is a magic trick, while the shells are a demonstration of skill and/or a guessing game. They are two different animals, and perhaps you should decide which one you want to invest time in by thinking about that aspect first, and deciding which trick fits your personality and performing style. I also think you can get more mileage out of the C&B, but again that is my own personal opinion.

If you want to "preview" the moves and technique, an inexpensive investment would be the Tom Osborne pamphlet on the Three Shell Game. It's an oldie but still a goodie, usually available for about $5 from your favorite magic dealer. I also heartily endorse the Whit Haydn DVD, which has everything you would ever want to know and then some, with excellent video demos of all the moves and techniques.

BTW, I have tried both, decided to stick with the C&B, and have never regretted it. But as they say, your mileage may vary. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On 2008-02-21 13:54, sethb wrote:
That's not necessarily true with the shells, in which the specs are often given a choice of shell.


This is why the kohler routine is so good for a beginner. The spectator is only given a choice the first 2 times and the first time is under the assumption that they will get it correct.

And it's a kick-butt routine.
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matt kemp
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Do any of the 3-shell game moves carry over into the cups and balls? I mean, will the 3-shell game improve my cups and balls routine?
silverking
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The C&B is a TRICK, the shells are a CON.

The shells may be played for entertainment, but at its heart you've still got a con.......(therein likely lies its entertainment value).

Working the shells won't do anything for your C&B other than hone your general performing skills.
The moves and methods are different.

Like Bill points out above, if you're REALLY wanting to know about the shells, then get Whit Hayden's School for Scoundrels DVD.
It's the best there is on the topic of the Three Shell Game.......no contest.
It comes with a large .pdf file as well, containing information on the shell game not available anywhere else.
Bill Palmer
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There are a few places where the Cups and Balls and the Shell Game make a crossover. But you normally wouldn't recognize the crossover.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
rannie
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Have a look at Phoa Yan Tiong's cups and balls routine gentlemen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6_jZ9L9n0

This has been posted a while back I think. There is a phase in his routine....actually a move that reminds me of the 3 shell game.

For the shell game.... I also recommend checking out Phill Cass, our very own Glen Bishop. Certainly Whit Hayden's School Of Scoundrels.

The moves are almost similar anywhere you go... its the psychology, the choreography as well as the presentation that varies. I love the shell game and I think it could be performed magically.

Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

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FunTimeAl
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OK, I just filmed this bit of "Jazz Magic" with my daughter. I don't normally use Johnny Paul cups with the shell game and I would normally reshoot this routine(if you can call it a routine...it's not one that I've ever practiced) until my angles improved and my windows got tighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMXInChtZ5s

Because of all the flashing on this video, I will only keep it up on YouTube for a day or so. The problem is that I can't get a 2nd take in because my daughter gets antsy. I'm usually lucky to get the one take in.

We do little videos like this a lot, but I don't post many of them because usually the sleights are exposed. I don't have much time to set up either due to the attention span of a 3 year old! I just set my camera somewhere, hit record, and then we watch it afterward. Sometimes it gets deleted at the camera, sometimes it goes to the hard drive...and ever now and again it makes it to YouTube.

Hope you all can appreciate this for what it is: Just a glimpse at my perception of the shell game and a lead in to the cups and balls.

Think of this clip more as an outline of what could be possible as opposed to me showing you all a finished product.

My ball to mouth productions are completely disorganized. I almost stopped filming because of that alone. I also NEVER ditch to the floor except when playing in my basement with my child. So, this is not what you would see if you saw me perform either on the street or at a gig. This is just playtime with my baby.

Hope you all enjoy it for what it's worth.
matt kemp
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Chad, I liked the video. Hmm the three shell game seems pretty fun.

Also, those Johnny Paul cups look NICE!! If I ever want a set of traditionals, I will probably get those. Can you only use spongeballs with those or can you use regular working balls?
walid ahumada
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Matt,jonny paul cups are very good for any standard routine and the size are just perfect for the loads from your pocket (little smaller than lacrose ball)

chad, I was waiting for the "dislodge" move since I am having a hard time with it, however I belive you found a way out.
thanks for posting.

walid
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Keith Mitchell
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I finally took the plunge. Just ordered my first set of Shells and "An Introduction to the Shell Game" vol.1 DVD starring Whit Haydn and Bob Sheets. More Magic toys on the way, and yes, I know that the 3-Shell game is more of a con than Magic. Although, I think the con of a 3-shell game can be magical.

Thanks Chad for the Video, it was inspirational and fun to watch.

Have fun everyone.
Smile
Keith
FunTimeAl
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Thanks for the feedback all! I wish I could find someone to hold the camera while I went through an entire routine...or at least babysit my children while I filmed my routines in my basement.

By night, I'm too tired to film them with the energy level that I'd find acceptable. Plus, it's always easier to run through a routine with at least one spectator...even if it's a 3 year old!

I love to share my original insights. To me, it's like sharing a poem, painting, or original song with you all. I wish I had more time to post videos more often.

I'll keep trying to sneak them in.
johnnymystic
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Chad, I like it and can see that this will be a neat routine once polished...and those are some sweet cups btw.
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silverking
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Quote:
, and yes, I know that the 3-Shell game is more of a con than Magic. Although, I think the con of a 3-shell game can be magical.


Keith, of course you're going to work the shells as you see fit.
But before you form any firm opinions, you may want to wait until you get an opportunity to read Whit Hayden's material on the shells.

In a nutshell, and paraphrasing, Whit says "you reduce the inherent charm of the shell game when you try to turn it into a magic trick".

My only point is to say, there is far more going on with the Three Shell Game than spectators realize, and unless a magician has studied the material from Scoundrels, there's far more going on (in your specs head) than even many magicians realize.

Most folks can't understand the inner workings of the Shells and the Monte based on their own experiences, because the inner workings of the material is not intuitive, it has to be taught.

I saw the light after thinking I "knew it all" when I completed reading and watching ALL the Scoundrels material on the topic.
Until I had done that, I really didn't know anywhere near what I thought I knew.
FunTimeAl
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Silverking,

I wish not to argue your post, only to add a differing opinion obtained by my experiences working the streets as a busking magi working both the 3CM and Shell game.

First, I have a substanstial library of SFS materials and a great many other names. I'm an avid researcher (that's what my mentoring professor called my while pursuing my Master's Smile )

Any who. The short con's DO come with a substantial history, they do hold a very special spot in the hearts and minds of the general public...but my experience has taught me that they can be performed as any 'ol magical effect when presented the correct way.

I wish not to say more or start a flame war with you. I respect your opinion and wish others to not see your post as the 'be all, end all' fact on the matter.

If you saw my sidewalk show, or my table hopping act with the shells and then held onto your opinion then I would say that you've earned it.

However, even the great Whit Haydn himself may only have but an opinion about the proper place for the shell game.

I am a HUGE fan of Whit's. I've saught advice from him on his rings routine (which I've never performed in public, rather I changed my version of it to a Ring & Rope routine). He is a VERY knowledgeable man and an IMMENSE asset to the magic community. However, even he is entitled to at most an opinion.

Let's not act as if there's nothing else to say and nothing else to learn. I make money with the shells and the 3CM and have NEVER hustled with them. I am a magical entertainer and LOVE the short cons as a magical illusion.

It's all in how you present them.

Best to you friend. I hope the conversation stays healthy and positive. I respect where you're coming from, but my time on the streets has taught me differently.
silverking
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No worries Chad, I don't have any horses in this race Smile
You need not worry about detailing your opinion......as a matter of fact, I enjoy reading ANYTHING about the Three Shell Game, so I'd love to read more of how you make this work as a trick. There isn't any flame war going to happen in this thread.

The SFS material on the Shell Game is deep. My core statement was simply that one might want to actually read it and watch it all before rendering an opinion.
A person might also want to spend a few months with a good set of shells to get a feel for the number of possibilities available when working them either as a demonstration of the con, or as a magic trick.

You've done as I have done......read it all and watched it all.....

As a result of that, I respect your thoughts on the topic, and your opinion...100%.
FunTimeAl
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Thank you for your understanding sir.

I certainly agree that the SFS resources are the best out there, and the first materials that a prospective learner should look into purchasing.
Dave V
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You haven't seen it all... yet. Wait until you see what Whit comes up with next!

A two DVD set is in the editing stages now. Several accessories are also being produced, one of which (Sheets Stack) is already available on the site.
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silverking
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I gotta admit that my jaw dropped yesterday when I went to Whit's "What's New" page. I hadn't seen the new stuff before then.

The new Part II shells DVD, brass shells, the Chanin commemorative shells, Sheets Stack, Perfect Pea Can, Chef Anton's dice stacking finale of corner stacked dice..........I can see the $250.00 going out the door right now.....$500.00 if I go for the brass shells Smile

Worth a visit for those inclined to the SFS way of thinking. The website doesn't get a makeover this big very often, and some of this stuff (like the Sheets Stack) will potentially change the way you work the pea and shells.

Can't wait.
dlcmagic
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A good routine to learn is Super Shells by Gary Oulett.
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