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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » It's all in the sleeves (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Chris Becker
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Voilŕ a thread on sleeving.

In order to stimulate a discussion, let me quote Carl Cloutier who says: if everyone's suspecting your sleeves, it can't get any worse: why not really use the sleeves then?

I agree with that viewpoint and what is more, misdirecting in this connection is fairly difficult, thus quite a good training. Besides you can - which is even more fun - always seemingly show your sleeves empty/roll them up after they've been loaded/or even let the spectator (preferably a she) roll up your sleeves (make sure she grasps the sleeve at the wrist not at the elbow where the prop is hidden).

Finally, IMHO there's a fundamental difference between two areas where sleeving can be used.

1, Sleeve a coin, ball, card or anything else in order to demonstrate a vanish of the prop.

2, Sleeve the gimmicked coin, the extra coin in the two-coin-routine, the TT, ...

Get my point? Share your thoughts!

In better magic,

Chris
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<BR>Cards don't cheat people. People cheat people.
Geoff Williams
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Dorian Gray (a graduate of The Magic Castle's elite Junior Program) has a wonderful manuscript called "Slydini Revisited" which teaches a method of coins across where the coins travel ALL AT ONCE!

It uses a feke which is sleeved. The sleeving process has been simplified using natural body language for not only the misdirection to cover the sleeving but ALSO the movement which causes the sleeving to actually happen. Two birds, one stone.

It's a VERY strong routine, too.

Just as Chad Long's "Now Look Here" is one of the most fun ways to learn a top change, "Slydini Revisited" is one of the most fun ways to learn sleeving (or at least one of its many variants).

Highly recommended.
"Saját légpárnás tele van angolnák."

(Hungarian for "My hovercraft is full of eels")
Scott F. Guinn
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Personally, I never sleeve. I prefer to use a topit or Rubinstein's matting technique.

The problem I have with Cloutier's quote is simply this: A bunch of laymen were visiting my house the night the World's Greatest Magic featuring Cloutier aired. After watching the special, I asked them for their thoughts. One of them said, "I thought it was pretty good, but what was with the dark-haired guy who kept throwing everything up his sleeve and then pulling it back out like it was some amazing thing?" Out of the nine people there, seven agreed that they knew that's what he was doing and they weren't impressed.

Remember, the spec doesn't have to KNOW you're sleeving--if he only suspects it, there is no magic. Darwin Ortiz, among others, states that your magic increases in power exponentially if you roll your sleeves up before you start. I have found this to be true. In fact, I often perform in short sleeves, and people are blown away--"And he's wearing short sleeves, so it couldn't have come from there!"

In my opinion, the fact that people already suspect sleeving is the very reason I don't use it--particularly in close up.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Burt Yaroch
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Dang! I just got that goat to sit still up there!

Is there a magic technique known as pantsing?

On second thought, nevermind. Smile
Yakworld.
Peter Marucci
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Actually, Yak, it's called "cuffing" and Bobo has a whole chapter on it in Modern Coin Magic.
Not very practical with today's styles, but it exists.
cheers,
Peter Marucci
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p.b.jones
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I agree with Scott. I work close up without sleeves, it is the single easiest way to improve the magic of your performance in the eyes of a lay person. For some reason they have the most outragous ideas of what magicians can stick up their sleeves.

The Quote seems Flawed anyway, I mean it's like saying "everyone suspects a trick pack of cards so that's what I will use!"

phillip
Chris Becker
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Now we're talking!

Yes, I agree that Cloutier is super
UN-natural in many ways. That's because he uses sleeving to vanish objects. (Cloutier admits that he set up that act for FISM/magician audience only; Laymen however, are seldom impressed by methods (alone)

I use my sleeves just to store objects which are always hidden from view. No-one comes up with the idea that you're using your sleeves if you started and ended with two coins. That extra coin is never seen, so there's no reason why anything should go up the sleeves.

Also we originally started this topic in connection with getting rid of a palmed card. Again, there's no reason to suspect anything, if the card reappears elsewhere or is simply taken out while the spectator is shuffling.

Concerning cuffing: I recently had the king of koins of our magic club condemning cuffing (since it wouldn't fool anyone). Half a minute later, I (wearing a T-shirt) cuffed the coin right in front of his eyes and in this way really fooled him. Smile

Btw, cuffing was taught to me by Bobby Bernard. Haven't heard from him in quite a while, how's he doing?

Have fun,

Chris
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<BR>Cards don't cheat people. People cheat people.
John Pezzullo
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An excellent essay on sleeving, written by David Ben, was published in the Winter 1996 issue of "The Looking Glass". The essay, titled 'Witness to Yesterday: Sleeving Techniques of Ross Bertram and Emil Jarrow", is essential reading for anyone interested in acquiring a better understanding of sleeving.

David Ben concludes his essay with the following insight:

"Hopefully, the publication of these two techniques will help the reader to gain a more sophisticated understanding of the use and abuse of sleeving. Used as a rare ingredient, it can elevate the ordinary to the extraordinary. But, as with any rare ingredient, it must be used with care and discretion."
"One arrow. One life."
John Pezzullo
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A question for those of you who own a copy of Jack Chanin's "Encycolpedia of Sleeving" (1947). Is this a publication worth purchasing?

I understand that Chanin was a highly proficient 'sleever'.
"One arrow. One life."
Dan Watkins
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I am going to weigh in agreeing with Scott. I hardly ever have the chance to perform wearing a jacket. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a spectator say "And his sleeves are rolled up!" I'd be a rich man.

I think the idea of tossing stuff up our sleeves is so well known to laymen. Everyone has heard the phrase, "Nothing up my sleeves." I believe many spectators believe much close up magic right in front of their eyes could be explained away with
"sleeves" even if it is the farthest thing from the truth.

As an example, when you perform a coin routine where coins are disappearing from one hand and showing up in the other, with no apparent way to do it - and your sleeves are rolled up, it eliminates the tendency for the spectator to suspect sleeves, and I think it's one of the first places they go in their mind. I have so often heard, "And his sleeves are rolled up, that is unbelievable!" right after the routine, to not think otherwise.

With all that said, I think the sleeve could be used if done judiciously. If you have done a good bit of magic with your sleeves up, and you let your sleeve slide down at an opportune time. You can sleeve, and push the sleeve back up out of the way.
I just personally wouldn't go making entire routines revolve around sleeves.

Dan
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Chris Becker
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Anyone out there who's on my side?? Smile
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<BR>Cards don't cheat people. People cheat people.
magic_kris
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I wonder if sleeving doesn't fool magicians more that the average layman.

Personally, sleeves are not the first method to cross my mind when viewing an effect. But then again I have been exposed to magic methods for more than 10 years. I know many other methods that are actually used much more commonly than sleeving. However, for the layman who does not, that may very well be the first thing that comes to their minds.

--Kris
Dan Watkins
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Quote:
On 2002-02-22 10:18, Christof wrote:
"ha, probably the coin's already in your other hand" I'm safe.


I have had that happen only on rare occasion, usually if you structure the routine in such a way that it removes the idea that you would be holding out - this can be avoided. For example, fake placing a coin into one hand and making it disappear.

If that is how you end - all eyes will instantly go to your suspect dirty hand. But if you make a coin disappear then reappear somewhere else - the curiosity of the specator has been quenched, even if you are holding out in the other hand.

With that said, I have still been called on
"It's in the other hand". And in such cases I have sleight of hand ways to get out of that - showing your hands empty, both sides, when you are holding out. Knowing some of these techniques, are real life savers if you don't have sleeves available.
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MichelAsselin
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Christof says:

"(Cloutier admits that he set up that act for FISM/ magician audience only; his point then was to show off his technique even though sleeving was obvious."

I find it hard to believe that Carl actually said that. And the FISM act was magical, period. It was not a showcase for sleeving; it was a showcase for magic. I can appreciate that people may have reservations about his dependence upon sleeving.
John Pezzullo 's quoting of David Ben


"Hopefully, the publication of these two techniques will help the reader to gain a more sophisticated understanding of the use and abuse of sleeving. Used as a rare ingredient, it can elevate the ordinary to the extraordinary. But, as with any rare ingredient, it must be used with care and discretion."

.. is right on the money. Incidently, insiders will relish in knowing that Mr Ben did not share his position - as well as a pretty pointed barb about Carl's magic, from the same article - when he met Carl.
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btaxin
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I concur with Michel; when sleeves are used with discretion you can get away with murder. And our audience is certainly aware of the concept, although not of the subtleties of sleeving. I address it straight on.

I do a vanish without sleeves, and say,
"Everyone thinks I've got it up my sleeve. Let me show you what I've got up my sleeve". I then pull my arm out with my other hand. It's hard to describe, but it looks really weird. I begin with my shoulder pulled way back, and the visual effect is that I'm stretching my arm out of the sleeve for more than 6 inches. It gets a good laugh, and they stop wondering about my sleeves.

I also pull up my sleeve in the act of moving a coin from finger palm to classic palm. By now they "know" that I'm not using my sleeves (and I'm using them, whenever I want!)

Bob Taxin
Geoff Williams
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Quote:
Is there a magic technique known as pantsing?


The upperclassmen used to do that a lot to me in high school gym class.

I really don't feel like talking about it right now.
"Saját légpárnás tele van angolnák."

(Hungarian for "My hovercraft is full of eels")
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