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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts 
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On 2008-02-26 15:57, entity wrote: How would 6 ventriloquists, or 6 hypnotists, go over as entertainment in the same show, whether TV or live? To my mind, 6 mentalists could be much more varied in what they do - for example: > Metal bending > PK movement > Telepathy > Clairvoyance > Precognition etc., etc., etc. Vents make inanimate objects talk, and hyps make people do things. Pretty narrow in comparison, don't you think? Perhaps that's why we've never seen shows like "Battle of the Dummies" or "Who wants to be a chicken?" |
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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On 2008-02-26 16:07, Lemniscate wrote: Proof? I only know about proof from being a college math professor and also a trial lawyer. That's on two different professional levels - scientific and sociological - so what are you talking about? And what PM are you talking about? Do you have a copy? I'd love to see it. Please PM it to me, if you still have it. How easily you gloss over your flagrant rudeness to kriskraze, calling his opinion less than worthless? Please correct your attitude. |
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TamTheMentalist New user 65 Posts
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Yes, of course, in your mind, there is more variety, but who you're pitching the idea too probably doesn't see that, I know, I'm sounding like a broken record player, but the point doesn't seem to hit. For example, they would probably group metal bending in with PK movement, and Clairvoyance in with telethapy. Yes, to us, there is a lot of variety in what we do, but to the general public, they will probably, at most, list 3 things that we can do, even if that many.
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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On 2008-02-26 16:32, TamTheMentalist wrote: Point well taken, but "Mentalism" denotes the power of the mind, and not necessarily how that power is used to manifest in either physical or mental effects. So I would say that even to the general public, the following categories would be considered separate and different: > PK (including movement, metal bending, levitation, etc.) > Telepathy (plus clairvoyance, precognition, remote viewing, etc.) > Control over one's body (pulse stop, stigmata, etc.) > Control over another's mind (suggestion, hypnosis, forcing amnesia, etc.) Any more categories? |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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On 2008-02-26 16:15, Arnon wrote: I'd agree. That goes back to my earlier statement about variety in a given show. Although, I find that successful professional vents seem to be more personality-driven and inventive than mentalists in their attempts to set themselves apart from the next performer. Mentalists seem often to be more effect-driven. To the public, it might be equally entertaining to see Jay Marshall performing "Lefty" immediately after watching Jay Thomas perform the three shell game with a talking pea. To the same audience, watching Richard Osterlind do a bank night effect (basically a prediction), followed by the Evasons telling people what they have in their purse (telepathy from one partner to the other), might seem like a similar thing: reading minds. I'm not saying it's impossible to get variety in a mentalism show. I'm saying that often the subtle differences in process are lost on audiences. Spoon bending might be different, but then again, set against other types of telekinetic effects, would the audience see the difference? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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I find myself agreeing with you, entity, and hence do not believe that a weekly mentalism show with multiple mentalists is on the American TV horizon.
Here are two more broad categories: > Memory Mastery (people, objects, etc.) > Mathematical Mastery (magic squares, lightning calculations, etc.) |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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I like your categories, but I think that that's barely sufficient for ONE mentalist to fill out a series (or even a special) without seeming repetitious.
Glad we agree on some things. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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TamTheMentalist New user 65 Posts
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Math is not going to sell to the American public!
They won't stand for it! The very word probably sounds like scratches on a chalkboard... Honestly, if I heard the word math as I was flipping through channels, I would keep on going. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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Tam: I dunno. There was an info-mercial on late at night a while back where a fellow was touting his special math system to make math easier for people to learn. It was enormously successful and made the fellow a lot of money. His pitch was entertaining and amazing.
Have you ever seen Arthur Benjamin or other "Mathemagicians" perform their acts? The good ones are pretty entertaining! - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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TamTheMentalist New user 65 Posts
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Can't say I have.
I'm just saying, as a personal preference, I wouldn't want to hear the word math on TV. I get too much math homework from my AP classes. I'll be sure to check the out in the summer when I'm all math deprived and what not though. |
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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In fact, that was my next thought -
Have 6 "mentalists" who specialize in each category and are outstanding entertainers. For instance, how about each week, in each of the broad categories, Banachek performs PK Osterlind performs Telepathy Jermay performs Body Control Brown performs Mind Control Lorayne performs Memory Mastery Benjamin performs Mathematical Wizardry Shall we call it "Masters of the Mind"? Don't you think an hour could easily be filled if each of the "masters" performs one effect per show? |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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No one could afford to produce the show. And what would be the benefit of appearing on such a show, for someone like Derren Brown?
I'd pay to see a cage match with those mentioned, though. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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TamTheMentalist New user 65 Posts
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That show would be a mental overload...
Where's Bob Cassidy? |
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DT3 Inner circle Hill Valley 1920 Posts
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[quote]On 2008-02-26 14:46, kriskraze wrote:
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Yep, I contest it but don't need to prove it. I'll remember to invite you to the next discussion 
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Also, are you stating mentalism isn't mostly, theatre, acting and drama? You are being pedantic. Of course that's not what I'm claiming. But similarly I'm not claiming that mentalism is mostly human beings walking around doing stuff and saying stuff. Quote:
The use of stooges is just a tool, like a nwriter, a clipboard, DReality or anythings else. There are performers who will use any of those things badly, and there are others that will use them wisely and create a sensation. [/quote[ Dr Spektor could be called many things Demented, disturbing, diabolical, devious and delightful. "Pedantic" is one of the last words in the English language I would use to describe him. He is lean and athirst. D |
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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On 2008-02-26 17:36, TamTheMentalist wrote: And where's Kreskin, Max Maven, Larry Becker, etc.? You can't have all the greats on the show - not enough time! Quote:
On 2008-02-26 17:36, TamTheMentalist wrote: How do you mean? |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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On 2008-02-26 14:46, kriskraze wrote: Surely the artistry is in the presentation and in the final effect, not in the tools used. Should the quality of the artist be defined by the tools he used to create the art? Willy Nelson makes beautiful music on a chewed up old guitar with holes in it. Is he less of an artist because he chooses to use that instead of an elegant looking, expensive guitar? Isn't the art in the music produced? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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On 2008-02-26 17:20, entity wrote: With the first sentence, you question whether anyone could (or would) come up with the money to produce it. On the other hand, with your last sentence, you affirm how worthwhile the show would be to you, and that you'd part with good money to see it. Seems to me that's a pretty good sales pitch for the show to some network - that folks would pay to see it. Now please don't tell me that the general public doesn't share your good taste in mentalism - art is meant to teach people what to appreciate - and it will pay off in the long run to the network, plus it will pay off for the future popularity of mentalism entertainment. Quote:
And what would be the benefit of appearing on such a show, for someone like Derren Brown? Becoming a household name in the U.S., for one thing. :D Arnon |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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Arnon: I meant an ACTUAL cage match, as in wrestling. I'd pay to see that, with the combatants named.
I think Derren can think of better ways to become a household name in the U.S. Stay tuned. And I do think that television producers might not see things they way that you do. Producers would see it as an expensive experiment to conduct, merely to education people in the subtleties of mentalism. I don't think that many (any?) broadcasters would take the chance, ESPECIALLY after Phenomenon. There are niche market audiences for all sorts of interests. I don't think that the audience for mentalism is demonstrably large enough to overcome the other objections to a multi-mentalist series. You and I might love it, if it were well done, but the average audience would, I think, not find a focus that would engage them for the entire series. Sad, but probably true. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts
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Entity_Tom:
Sadly, you might be right. Let's see what the future brings - maybe my idea will catch on. I wonder how Derren Brown will be conducting the post-Beatles British invasion? Arnon P.S. In an ACTUAL cage match, I have a feeling Derren Brown would win. He probably has studied the martial arts. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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As I said, stay tuned...
One other thought... One of the big problems faced by contestants on Phenomenon was that, with several performers on each show, none had the time to really develop a rapport with the audience, or time to make clear the things that are so essential to the performance of good mentalism, such as context, process, personal vision, etc. Just a thought. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Posted: Feb 26, 2008 09:15 pm 
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