The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Starting a Career in Magic » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
Donald Dunphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
7394 Posts

Profile of Donald Dunphy
Quote:
On 2008-03-01 09:59, Jim Snack wrote:
With only four years (give or take a few years) of professional experience under his belt, I don't think Dustin should present himself as an expert at making a living at magic, but he could offer a valuable service for anyone starting a career in magic by writing about his journey so far, chronicling his successes and failures along the way. That could be interesting and informative.


I was planning to come on this thread this morning and clarify my earlier position. However, Jim did it for me. Thank you.

I think that a great way for Dustin to position himself should be that of one who is going through this, and what he has to share.

It is a different position than one who teaches as an authority/expert based on his experience of a certain number of shows, years, etc.

Again, I am not against what Dustin is trying to do. I see value in it, if it is approached in the right way.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20017 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Well, my point has been made obvious, and I am done.

The idea that you say you have not "mastered" any of these crafts, and yet tell me you do a very high quality show at all of them, tells me everything I need to know.

I am done.


See, fallingblood, I DID talk about "what you wrote". You still say I didn't, but in actuality, I did. I said about you being a "Jack of all trades", as Brian had put it. That is wrong at almost any age, let alone 19. If you think with this laundry list of services people take you as a serious pro, then so be it.

I think it is absolutely wrong for you to do. See, most do this because not enough money comes in from one field of work. Smart business? Perhaps, but like I said, in the end it leads to mediocrity.

This next point you may enjoy actually. It should be noted that I have seen a LOT of "older experienced pros" who do not have the knowledge you put forth. To be completely fair on the topic, you do have knowledge, no doubt. You have sort of come off as an "expert" on this, and maybe this is where my problem lies.

But all that aside, as I have said, I have seen many a pro who have simply never learned and manage to eek out a living. So you are starting out ahead of the game in that respect.

One last thing and, again, not a bash at you. The habits you learn now will be the ones you keep forever. Good or bad, it is up to you.

Michael, the idea of being a "jack of all trades" IS IN THE ARTICLE. He is encouraging people to do it. How is this not offering critique on the article? Maybe YOU should contribute something other than an attack on me. You say all I try to do is stir up trouble, and yet you contribute nothing only to attack me. I would actually DEFINE that as stirring up trouble. So maybe it is time to wipe the tears from your eyes, and contribute instead of attacking.

As for Google, hey, go further back. Mozart, right? That is the most popular example. Sure, you can find examples to prove ANY point. I have seen stories that are confirmed of people who actually fell out of cars at 60 without a scratch or bruise. But this is not the way you want to get out of the car every day is it, Michael? Does this mean it is a good idea? According to your logic, it is a great plan automatically because you can find one success.

I am sure the regular teary eyes will see this as another attack. Guess what? It wasn't, so read it again. Fallingblood, if you perhaps did it as a chronicle of events, such as "starting my career in magic" as opposed to as a manual and a book on how you think it should be done, it would come off a bit better.

See, I have no problem with this really. Bob even points out how he was pre-16 and was quite a success. BUT at that point, he was not trying to write the definitive experience on it. I think a journal is a great idea, as you can look back at it and you can remember the good and the bad. I am not saying you can't be a success. I am saying that the idea of "teaching" others is not for kids.

It can be very cathartic to share an experience, and this is a helpful process. I guess the problem I have is this. If you are putting these things out and then learn different, what of those you have taught these things to? When you have not had a process of trial and error and things are put forth, maybe someone else is there to make the same mistakes. I guess this is why I have such a problem in the end. Without "proof of concept" over a extended period of time, I guess writing and teaching it kind of worries me.

Good luck. I admire your energy. Actually, not good luck. Luck is for the ill prepared. Good fortune.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20495 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
James,

I don't list a phone number either and never have! Instead, I ask people to contact a professionally licensed agent. It sorts the mail. (I am a retired graduate marketing professor with emphasis in personality marketing: specifically professional entertainment. Need help?)

~~~~

Here is a guy I met on his way up. He was a janitor at Columbia Records. He was already quite accomplished.

_________ father was an Air Force general who pushed his son into a military career. _______ was a Golden Gloves boxer and went to Pomona College in California. (He has been awarded an honorary Doctorate from Pomona College.) From there, he earned a Rhodes scholarship to study literature at Oxford. He ultimately joined the U.S. Army and achieved the rank of captain. He became a helicopter pilot, which served him well later. In 1965, he resigned his commission to pursue songwriting. He had just been assigned to become an English professor at West Point.

He got a job sweeping floors in Nashville recording studios. There he met Johnny Cash, who initially took some of his songs but ignored them. He was also working as a commercial helicopter pilot at the time. He got Cash's attention when he landed his helicopter in Cash's yard and gave him some more tapes. Cash then recorded ________ "Sunday Morning Coming Down", which was voted 1970's Song Of The Year by the Country Music Association.

He gave up alcohol in 1976. His acting career nose-dived after making Heaven's Gate (1980) in 1980. In recent years, he has made a comeback with his musical and acting careers. He does say that he prefers his music, but says his children are his true legacy.

Do you recognize an over achiever in the entertainment industry? This is Kris Kristofferson. He can certainly walk and chew gum. He is not a "one pony show". Age and experience has not held him back.

(In junior high school, my classmates were also getting it done in the entertainment industry. One, you know as John Denver. Ask Doc Eason if he has ever heard of him.)

Please, don't retard those in forward motion! Wave when they pass you.

"Expert" breaks down to meaning
Ex = "was" and
Spurt = "A drip under pressure".


Expert status isn’t all it’s represented to be.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
James Munton
View Profile
Inner circle
Dallas, TX
1199 Posts

Profile of James Munton
Bob,

Quote:
I don't list a phone number either and never have! Instead, I ask people to contact a professionally licensed agent.


Yes, but the reason you don't have a phone number isn't because your mom forgot to put one on your website when she designed it. Also, Dustin doesn't have an agent.


Quote:
(I am a retired graduate marketing professor with emphasis in personality marketing: specifically professional entertainment. Need help?)

Is that an example of what you call hubris?

And no, I don't need your help. I've seen your video.

Quote:
Expert status isn’t all it’s represented to be.

You shouldn't put yourself down. I like reading your posts.

Best,
James
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20495 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
James,

I have a lawyer that would love to see that video! They don't legally exist.

But I will give his phone number.


Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20017 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2008-03-01 13:05, Bob Sanders wrote:
James,

I have a lawyer that would love to see that video! They don't legally exist.

But I will give his phone number.


Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander


I think the real question is this. Is your lawyer's phone number on his web page?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
fallingblood
View Profile
New user
North Dakota
98 Posts

Profile of fallingblood
To clarify things, I didn't ask my mom to build the website. She decided she would, and I agreed to it. It wasn't the best judgment on my part. However, that website is not given out to any clients. Very few people actually see it. I do plan on redoing it, today or tomorrow, and getting it up to date. Judging me by that site is simply ridiculous, though.

Also, I never stated that I didn't have an agent. I work with a couple of agents.

I'm not encouraging people to become a "jack of all trades." I'm simply stating that it's an option, which it is. I don't say it's the only way to go. I say that it works for some people, which it does. I also inform people that specializing in one field, or even just a couple of fields, is also a way to go. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on this subject. I never stated that I was. However, I do know what worked for me when I started my career in magic and entertainment. I did try various techniques. I did go through my fair share of failures, but I ended up finding a way that works. My career of being a magician and entertainer is already started. I feel that gives me the experience and knowledge to help others on how they can go about starting theirs. I'm not saying my way is the best. I'm simply saying that it worked for me.

Now, I could wait ten or twenty years until I write anything on the subject. But in ten or twenty years, the way I started my career in magic is going to be exactly the same way as if I was writing now simply because I'm past that phase in my career. I've already started. I'm moving forward from that point.

Again, though, I'm not claiming to be an expert. I simply know what worked for me, and I'm passing on that information. And I don't expect people to consider that what I'm writing is the only source that beginners should read. Because it's not. They should find as much information as they can. But it is a point in which they can start and get the basics.
Michael J. Douglas
View Profile
Inner circle
WV, USA
1649 Posts

Profile of Michael J. Douglas
No, Danny, you need to re-read what has been written. He said some people specialize in one or two things, and some people branch out into many areas. Then he listed what he has done, as well as some pros and cons of either choice. He is not encouraging anyone to do anything.
As far as the Google reference, I never said any plan is automatically great because of one success. Again, you've decided to put words in other people's mouths. You said about Dustin, "The very idea that at your age you think you have mastered any ONE of these skills on a professional level is laughable," as if age really mattered. It doesn't.
As far as me contributing, I thought giving a differing opinion about a given opinion (re: age) was contributing to the discussion. But I guess when someone disagrees with you, it's not a contribution. And you've got your terms wrong; I wasn't "attacking" you, I was defending another's right to share their thoughts on this board without being attacked.

You must be seeing your own reflection in the computer screen, as there are no tears here.
Michael J.
�Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.� --from Shakespeare�s �As You Like It�
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20017 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Michael, by your definition, then Dustin is wrong when he says I attacked him. LOL

The very idea that age and experience does not matter when you are talking about mastering performance is strange because this simply implies that you don't get better with time.

You DO get better with time, my friend. Lots better, so age and experience matter. Unless you just want a level of mediocrity. Then, experience and age do NOT matter.

Clarify for me, Michael, how experience does not make you a better act please?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Michael J. Douglas
View Profile
Inner circle
WV, USA
1649 Posts

Profile of Michael J. Douglas
Experience does, yes, but age doesn't. You seem to be stuck on age as a prerequisite for knowledge and experience, as evidenced by what I quoted above. You also said, "Wait, when you are 40, tell us how to do it. Then, you have a background to draw from. Till then, it is just a bunch of things you hope will work."
Who says he'll have more or better knowledge at age 40? Let's say some 19-year-old, for example only, had performed twice a month for the past four years, and a 40-year-old had only performed once a year. Who do you think would have better advice? Now, I don't know Dustin or his credentials, but the point of my posts (other than you seem to want to argue about almost everything) is that there's no point in saying someone's opinions hold no validity because of their age.
I hope you understand, as I refuse to continue going 'round about this. I, frankly, can make better use of my time.
Michael J.
�Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.� --from Shakespeare�s �As You Like It�
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20495 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
Age and experience are hardly measures of quality. One of the observations others notice about the public education system in the USA is that we tend to put children of the same age in the same classroom. What can they learn from each other? After twelve years or more of these “classes”, does anyone have any valuable experience from the peers of equal ignorance?

All the “aged learnings” have to be imported into the room under these conditions.

How long was the Earth flat?

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- The microscope was invented by a janitor!
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Starting a Career in Magic » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.33 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL