The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » If Jesus Did Coin Tricks... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Tim David
View Profile
Regular user
MA
164 Posts

Profile of Tim David
I'm looking for a title for my upcoming coin magic DVD and I thought "If Jesus Did Coin Tricks..." would be good, but I wanted to get feedback from some fellow Christian magicians.

A little background:

I received an email with the following testimonial...

"Dude!!! T. Nelson Downs, J.B. Bobo, David Roth, and now Tim David. If Jesus Himself did coin tricks, they'd look like that."

I thought it was a great line and I thought it would make a great title for my DVD.

I got permission from the person who sent the email but I wanted to know if it would be offensive. Being a Christian myself, I don't have a problem with it, but I want to make sure there isn't some theological line that I'd be crossing or some weird interpretation that could be misconstrued.

Any thoughts?
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1789 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
IMHO, you're asking for trouble!

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Rickfcm
View Profile
Veteran user
lower Michigan
379 Posts

Profile of Rickfcm
I believe saying "If Jesus did Coin tricks" would possibly make miracles equal to magic in some peoples minds. That is shaky ground and I personally stay from this. I would use the coin illusions to tell the stories of the Bible but even infer that Jesus did tricks makes me feel umcomfortable.
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Dude, you just dug yourself a hole large enough to land a B-29 bomber... bad mistake.

First helpful lesson, never say " That's how Jesus did it." When you say that you are infering that Jesus did magic instead of miracles.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1789 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Quote:
On 2008-03-01 20:59, ibm_usa wrote:
Dude, you just dug yourself a hole large enough to land a B-29 bomber... bad mistake.

First helpful lesson, never say " That's how Jesus did it." When you say that you are infering that Jesus did magic instead of miracles.


Tim:

This is why I stated "You're asking for trouble."

Even though you never stated, "That's how Jesus did it," ibm_usa seems to think you did (no offense meant here ibm_usa, but that's the reality of the situation).

I see too many opportunities to be misunderstood with a title like that!

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Will this coin magic dvd be relating to Gospel magic?
None the less, I'm sure you can come up with something more creative.
Is this a dvd that you will be showing on your site http://themagicteacher.com/ for free like the many other tricks you reveal on there, or is this a project you plan on selling?
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
MagicMattMan
View Profile
Special user
Tampa, FL
741 Posts

Profile of MagicMattMan
Didn't John Born do something called "Matrix God's Way"?
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
It's no more offencive than putting Buddhas on a production screen.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Ron Reid
View Profile
Inner circle
Phoenix, Arizona
2733 Posts

Profile of Ron Reid
Hi Tim:

I agree with the others - you are asking for trouble. Really...it sounds very cliche, too.

Best Regards,

Ron
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1789 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 02:52, Payne wrote:
It's no more offencive than putting Buddhas on a production screen.


Hi Payne:

So does that mean it is offensive or does that mean it is not offensive in your eyes?

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
Trouble with a big "T" I find it offensive and in very bad taste...I'm offended at Buddah's on my equipment too...
Rickfcm
View Profile
Veteran user
lower Michigan
379 Posts

Profile of Rickfcm
Payne,
I am glad you are here. I love your comments; it keeps us thinking.I agree with you about the Buddha and have repainted all my props to eliminate pictures or images I won't use. In your honor though, I will rename my Buddha Tubes and now call them Payne Tubes. I really thank you for your input.
Tim David
View Profile
Regular user
MA
164 Posts

Profile of Tim David
I hadn't thought that people would make the connection that I would be implying that what Jesus did was just tricks. That is certainly something to consider.

However, I'm not saying that what Jesus did was just trickery. In fact, I actually imply that He did not do "just tricks" because I use the word "if". I will also enforce that idea in the DVD itself. I really can't help if people hear me wrong. All I can do is be crystal clear in what I say. Jesus was crystal clear in what He said, but people constantly misconstrue it to this day. Does that mean He should have not said what He did?

I feel that the image of Jesus performing coin tricks illustrates what I want to say on the DVD in the most clear way possible.

What is it that I want to say???

If Jesus did coin tricks...

- He would always give meaning to them.

He never performed a miracle without a purpose (i.e. He calmed the storm to show that He can calm the "storms" within our lives).

As magicians, we need to have a purpose and reason not only for all of our movements and motions, but also for our effects and presentations.

- He would specifically cater His effects to the spectators present.

He would make a coin appear to give away as a message about generosity, and the next day He would make a coin disappear to show someone else that money isn't everything. He gave sight to the blind man, not to the deaf guy. He knows each one of us and knows what we need.

Relating that to magicians - Trick selection is an art in itself and it isn't talked about enough. We should think about it in terms not of performing the BEST trick, but instead, about performing the right trick. (Which ultimately leads to the best trick for the spectator.)

- His tricks would never be about Himself.

He would never do anything just to show off.

As magicians, our job is not to show off, but to entertain the audience by connecting with them on as deep an emotional level as possible. Humility is so important in magic. Effective magic is not about us, it's about our spectators. Many magicians don't get that.

- His tricks would be utterly amazing.

Jesus probably wouldn't do a matrix routine (no offense to John Born).

This is the one that is cliche and that I think everyone naturally assumes when they hear the title: "If Jesus Did Coin Tricks..."

No doubt, I want to convey that the tricks I teach on the DVD are amazing, but I also want to convey the idea that the tricks on the DVD are different than the usual slew of "my handlings" ("Here's my handling of 3-fly" or "Here's my handling of coins through the table" Boring!).

Hear me, magic tricks are not miracles and they never will be.

The title: "If Jesus performed miracles with coins..." would be unacceptable in my mind because it would imply that anyone can learn to perform miracles and it would also imply that tricks are somehow on the same level as miracles.

I'm open to other ideas for titles that might illustrate the above ideas as clearly and quickly as "If Jesus Did Coin Tricks..."



In other words, if you apply "WWJD" to your coin magic, wouldn't it improve vastly???



Terry Owens:

I'm okay with offending some people...it hasn't stopped me before! I've found that "smooth sailing" and "comfortable" is a dangerous place to be as Christians. We should take risks and get outside of our comfort zones from time to time.

Non-Christians are often offended at the mere mention of the word Jesus. ("Get it out of our government! Get it out of our schools!" Etc.)

What I'm not okay with is if my DVD title would be offensive to God Himself. That's the question I'm trying to have answered.

You say you would be offended...Are you Christian or non-Christian? (I assume you are a Christian...I'm sorry that I don't know you well enough to know yet! I hope that changes soon.)

I can't find anything in the Bible or through prayer that is leading me away from the title. In fact, I feel led to use it because I think the DVD could open some doors for people who don't know who Jesus really is.

On one hand, I'm terrified to talk about Jesus on a coin magic DVD because of the response it might generate...but on the other hand, I'm excited at the positive response it might generate within some people.

So my question for you Terry, is simple:

Why are you offended by the title?

Your answer may help in revealing whether or not the title would be offensive to God.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback so far. Smile



MagicMattMan,

Yes, I looked into it and John Born did put something out called "Matrix God's Way".

I'll look over the Café and see if there are any threads on it. I'll post back with anything interesting.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 00:20, Terry Holley wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-01 20:59, ibm_usa wrote:
Dude, you just dug yourself a hole large enough to land a B-29 bomber... bad mistake.

First helpful lesson, never say " That's how Jesus did it." When you say that you are inferring that Jesus did magic instead of miracles.

Tim:

This is why I stated "You're asking for trouble."

Even though you never stated, "That's how Jesus did it," ibm_usa seems to think you did (no offense meant here ibm_usa, but that's the reality of the situation).

I see too many opportunities to be misunderstood with a title like that!

Terry

Tried to make a point.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
tbaer
View Profile
Inner circle
Pennsylvania
1921 Posts

Profile of tbaer
Tim, you asked for our thoughts and many were willing to share their thoughts. I also agree with the others. Most of us posted the way we did because the title give us a wrong impression even though you personally don't mean it to come across that way.

But it sounds like the Lord is leading you to keep the title from your above post. Only you can make the final decision. Continue to be led by the Holy Spirit and you'll make the right decision.
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
I have updated this 3 or 4 times trying to get the message just right, and there's no way for me to do it.

To equate the Son of God who was beaten, shamed, tortured and hung on a cross to die for the sins of all man kind...shed His blood for us....I couldn't even begin to imagine calling a DVD by that title.

In my opinion, that cheapens the work of Christ.
ibm_usa
View Profile
Special user
In Your Mind, Ky, USA
722 Posts

Profile of ibm_usa
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 15:52, Terry Owens wrote:
I have updated this 3 or 4 times trying to get the message just right, and there's no way for me to do it.

To equate the Son of God who was beaten, shamed, tortured and hung on a cross to die for the sins of all man kind...shed His blood for us....I couldn't even begin to imagine calling a DVD by that title.

In my opinion, that cheapens the work of Christ.


Amen
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
Tony Thomas
View Profile
Inner circle
North Carolina
1239 Posts

Profile of Tony Thomas
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 12:16, Tim David wrote:
In other words, if you apply "WWJD" to your coin magic, wouldn't it improve vastly???

Please don't make a DVD talking about Jesus doing coin magic and how he would have purpose for all his movements. At first I thought your DVD was going to be describing how to connect coin magic to the gospel. In which case, the title might have some validity.

But the more you describe how you will use it and relate the title, the worse the idea sounds. I agree with what the others have said, and I know you mean no disrespect to God, but I believe that disrespectful (however unintential) is what this dvd would be.
From the Encouraging Magic of...

Tony Thomas

www.magictonythomas.com
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 08:03, Terry Holley wrote:

Hi Payne:

So does that mean it is offensive or does that mean it is not offensive in your eyes?

Terry

In my eyes no more offensive than calling the book If Odin Did Coin Tricks or If Mithra Did Coin Tricks.

All deities are equal to me.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
magicgeorge
View Profile
Inner circle
Belfast
4299 Posts

Profile of magicgeorge
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 22:10, Payne wrote:
All deities are equal to me.


Egotist! Smile
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » If Jesus Did Coin Tricks... (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.23 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL