We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » If Jesus Did Coin Tricks... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Tim: What is your motive for wanting to use a christian theme or name for a DVD that has nothing to do with Gospel magic? Being a christian you'd think that you would understand the problem with that. Are you really looking for advice, or just publicity? Sorry if I sound harsh, but you said in an earlier post that you don't care if you offend anyone, then in all do respect, why are you looking for our advice?

Off Topic: I've browsed through your website http://www.themagicteacher.com and would like for others to view it and give their opinions on it.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Terry Owens
View Profile
Inner circle
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
1707 Posts

Profile of Terry Owens
Tim, do yourself a favor and knock it off with the Christian tie in to a secular product. I think your starting to believe your own press.

Why don't you call the DVD "TV Magic Coins", that seemed to have worked before with cards.
Tim David
View Profile
Regular user
MA
164 Posts

Profile of Tim David
Dan, "Terry's", etc- I know I haven't been clear as to EXACTLY how I'm going to tie it in and the motives for doing so.

The advice I'm asking for isn't whether or not some titles will SELL better than others (that's what the post in the "Nothing Up My Sleeve" forum was for). Rather, I'm asking advice on whether or not it would be unethical from a Christian standpoint.

I was struggling to find an answer on my own so I thought that this would be a good place to reach out to. I should have provided more information - but in the end I've gotten the answer that I need.

Incidentally, I brought it up last night at my small church group and we discussed it for almost 30 minutes. Their knee-jerk reaction was similar to yours, but after hearing everything, they strongly encouraged me to use "If Jesus Did Coin Tricks..." as the title. This is a group of very strong Christians whom I respect and am close with.

Also, just for the record, I've received several Private Messages from people in favor of the title...for various reasons.

I'm not defending anything or saying that people don't have the right to be offended - but I do want to be clear that this is NOT a marketing ploy. Actually, I know the title "If Jesus Did Coin Tricks..." would probably bring in fewer sales. I'd even bet that some magic shops would refuse to sell it at all.

I'll keep everyone posted when a final decision is definitely made.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
Kipp Sherry
View Profile
Elite user
Boise, ID
473 Posts

Profile of Kipp Sherry
Tim,

1) I think if you have to spend the first 30 minutes of your DVD explaining the title of the DVD, like it was with your small church group, then I wouldn't want to pay for the DVD and sit through that.

2) If it has no gospel correlation then you a) isolate purchases that could be made to non Christians, and b) disappoint the Christians who bought it thinking is was gospel magic.

It's sort of like doing a magic trick that isn't very magical so you have to spend 10 minutes explaining what you did and why it was magical. Those kind of effects you throw out of your routine. So why do something like that with a DVD title?

But hey, it's your project.

Until we appear again,
Kipp Sherry

Day 6
What is Kings Fool?
The only business card you'll ever need!
http://www.kippsherrymagic.info
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
After really thinking about this I have to say that you are absolutely free to use whatever title you want to use Tim. The fact is, it is your DVD. Many Christians may be offended by the idea of it, but how many Christians will actually hear about it? I agree with most others here, but agreeing with others here is only my personal opinion. I guess we are all free to voice our opinion about it because you did come and ask for our advice on it. However, like I said, in the end the decision is yours to make, dispite all the good advice you have received. As a brother in the Lord, I feel that I might have been out of line with my strong disaproval of what you want to name your DVD. The ultimate decision you make is between you and God. I wish you well, and may God bless you.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Ken Northridge
View Profile
Inner circle
Atlantic City, NJ
2269 Posts

Profile of Ken Northridge
Well said Dan!
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1791 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Quote:
On 2008-03-06 10:26, Tim David wrote:

I should have provided more information - but in the end I've gotten the answer that I need.


I'm interested to know what the answer is.

Quote:
Also, just for the record, I've received several Private Messages from people in favor of the title...for various reasons.


I'm very interested in reading the reasons.

Now let me toss out a thought.

What do you all think about this title for a book on wine making?

"If Jesus Brewed Wine: Heavenly Recipes for Down To Earth Parties"

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Tim David
View Profile
Regular user
MA
164 Posts

Profile of Tim David
I hesitate to say this because I've come to this decision several times before and then things changed...but this time I'm fairly confident.

Regarding the title of my upcoming DVD...

"The Gospel of Coin Magic According to Tim David" is OUT
"If Jesus Did Coin Tricks..." is OUT

Kipp - One of the big reasons I've been leaning away from these titles is what I call "over-disclaimering". It certainly doesn't take a full 30-minutes to explain everything, but still...too much time wasted. Besides, I'm not good at walking on eggshells!

Dan - I appreciate you affirming that it is "between God and I". I believe that everything in life ultimately boils down to the fact that it's between you and God.

Things can get cloudy and temptations can get in the way, so we need to be constantly reminded of that.

Thanks everyone, for the help, input, and prayers.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
MagicMattMan
View Profile
Special user
Tampa, FL
741 Posts

Profile of MagicMattMan
How about Tim David's "Nearly Miraculous" ?
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
For an infinite being God doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humour. Or at least some of his followers don't seem to.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
MagicMattMan
View Profile
Special user
Tampa, FL
741 Posts

Profile of MagicMattMan
God does has a sense of humor: Just take a look at the Playtpus!
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
Tim David
View Profile
Regular user
MA
164 Posts

Profile of Tim David
Hehe...Never judge God based on some of his followers. Just like you can't judge magic based on some magicians.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
The Great Danton
View Profile
Elite user
Westfield, North Carolina, USA
449 Posts

Profile of The Great Danton
Amen to that Tim!

Day 7
"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house."
GlenD
View Profile
Inner circle
LosAngeles, Ca
1297 Posts

Profile of GlenD
Just a gut reaction to another fine post from our friend, Payne...
Having a sense of humor and having no reverence for anything is the distinction or the balance where a lot of Christians are at with regards to comedy. Many many Christians have wonderful senses of humor but at the same time balance it with where the line is drawn. Jesus Christ, the Bible and Christs' death on the cross hold too much meaning and are just too great in scope for some to consider fair game from insults and ultimately disrespect.
That does'nt mean that we regulate it or make laws against that kind of comedy (although from a puritan perspective one could argue the case) but it also does not mean that Christians have to tolerate or find it funny either.
A couple of cents worth on the matter.
Peace out,

GlenD
P.S. - Glad to hear of your decisions on the title of the dvd, Tim.
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Hearttau
View Profile
Elite user
New Jersey: Exit 15 E
423 Posts

Profile of Hearttau
GlenD summed it up beautifully. Smile
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand

"Peace and all good"... St. Francis

"Hold on to your joy!"... Me Smile

http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/
GlenD
View Profile
Inner circle
LosAngeles, Ca
1297 Posts

Profile of GlenD
Thanks for the comment, Hearttau.

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in the letter not to associate intimately with fornicators;
1Co 5:10 yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you must go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written to you not to associate intimately, if any man called a brother and is either a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what is it to me to also judge those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Co 5:13 But God judges those who are outside. Therefore put out from you the evil one.

I think sometimes as a Christian I am quick to judge those who don’t believe in God, or have no relationship with Jesus Christ, and at the same time I am slow to judge my brother in the Lord who continues to live in sin.

I believe Paul makes a very important point that all of us Christians need to seriously take to heart.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Hearttau
View Profile
Elite user
New Jersey: Exit 15 E
423 Posts

Profile of Hearttau
I must too admit that I found two lines funny. The applause from the kitchen staff. And the cerebral palsy line because I have cerebral palsy. All the rest of it was completely unfunny to me. Atkinson went way too far, having his Jesus deny who he was. Truly tasteless. I would have found this slightly amusing if he had stuck to the magic show theme, without demeaning Jesus’ character. If the palsy bit had Jesus heal the man it would have been funny and touching. I’m sure Jesus joked with his friends as anyone does. At times people did just seek a “magic show” Herod for one, and those others who simply came seeking signs and wonders. Jesus ignored or corrected those types of followers because they were not seeking the Kingdom of God for righteousness sake.

On the subject of magic, this was a very good example of how not to do Gospel magic. As we all know, we should never equate illusions with miracles. This monologue was a perfect example of why we should never go down that road. Payne, I have a sense of humor, I just don’t agree with humorists who find demeaning the character of well-meaning or good people funny. Now, when it comes to Jesus and God, this is an entirely different category. As someone else just said, it is taking God’s Name in vain, or mocking God, if you will. As Gospel Dan said, God doesn’t need us to defend Him, but because of my love for Him, I can’t help but do that. There are plenty of ways to be funny about spiritual matters without being disrespectful to God. I say all this, by the way, because I have found it is very easy to be disrespectful to God, even without meaning to. I’ve committed this sin countless times, and I’m forever grateful to God that He does forgive me. This is why I try to do my best to advise others when they ask about mixing spiritual and secular matters. It isn’t because I’m holier or better than anyone else, it’s because I want to try to help them not to make the same mistakes I have.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand

"Peace and all good"... St. Francis

"Hold on to your joy!"... Me Smile

http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/
GlenD
View Profile
Inner circle
LosAngeles, Ca
1297 Posts

Profile of GlenD
A couple other points of clarification from my own perspective... As I understand it good comedy should be based on fact or truth. So I think for this reason a lot of the Mr Bean bit did'nt come across as funny to me.
I totally agree with the idea that God doesn't need us to defend Him. Choosing whether something is funny or not or perhaps not subjecting yourself to a particular type of comedy does not mean you have to go further by defending the one being made fun of, i.e. God. I love comedy and laughing and I find humor in many things but I do have a sense of reverence with things regarding my faith. But even if it is things other than my faith that might be the butt of someones joking, if they go too far or it becomes mean spirited or just a little too heavy, I will cease to find it funny. It is kind of like joking about the differences among people, whether race or weight, whatever. Okay, we can all acknowledge these differences and even make or take a joke about them until it crosses the line and comes across as racism or a hatred of some sort.
That's all I have to say about that.

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
revlovejoy
View Profile
Special user
Pennsylvania
765 Posts

Profile of revlovejoy
I didn't find the Atkinson bit to be mocking of Jesus, but those who responded to him. Face it, right in the text of the Gospels themselves you have people following Jesus not because of his message, or his call to self-sacrifice for the good of others, but because they saw him do something amazing. Today those of us on the common lectionary read the raising of Lazarus in John 11. It was the demonstration of power that inspired many to believe. Nothing wrong with that per se, or he would not have used those tools, but even Jesus himself expresses frustration by saying "you believe because your bellies are full!" (no time right now to look up specific cite, sorry)

I can laugh at Atkinson because whatever his motivations, it certainly does bring out a truth in how many would approach Jesus.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » If Jesus Did Coin Tricks... (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.23 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL