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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » If Jesus Did Coin Tricks... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Kipp Sherry
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Tim,

I'd suggest staying away from it.

Other suggested titles:
"Utterly Amazing Custom Coins"
"Use Coins On Purpose"
"Coins - Tim's Way"
"Not Just Any Coin"

Until we appear again,
Kipp Sherry

Day 2
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Bill Ligon
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Egotist? I would say Payne is rather the opposite.
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
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magicgeorge
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Hi Bill. I just thought it was funny that you could take the "equal to me" remark a different way.
Ken Northridge
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Two points to consider:

Of course you know we are not to take the Lord’s name “in vain.” The Hebrew word means meaningless, empty of content. Many Christians are sensitive to this. I’ve tried to explain it to my children by telling them not to say the word God or Jesus, unless you are talking to Him (praying) or talking to someone about His wonder and greatness.

Also, The Apostle Paul talks about, when possible, not to offend our brothers and sisters, or anyone for that matter. It seems to me you’ve seen a few already that are a bit offended.

Tim, I know you have prayed about this and you must obey what God is telling you to do. Regardless of what decisions we make in life, we will always be brothers and sisters in Christ. Which, of course, means to be loving and not to judge.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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revlovejoy
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Quote:
On 2008-03-02 15:52, Terry Owens wrote:
I have updated this 3 or 4 times trying to get the message just right, and there's no way for me to do it.

To equate the Son of God who was beaten, shamed, tortured and hung on a cross to die for the sins of all man kind...shed His blood for us....I couldn't even begin to imagine calling a DVD by that title.

In my opinion, that cheapens the work of Christ.


Terry, I am not trying to pick a fight, but as you just worded the above, and I can't say I disagree with it, I have to ask - couldn't you apply the same problem to comparing Wenk's PB&J to the doctrine of substitutionary atonement?
Tim David
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The mental image of Jesus doing coin tricks does seem a little absurd to me. Actually picturing Him doing anything that would take time away from His ministry seems silly to me.

But that's not the point. We all know that Jesus did not do coin tricks.

The point is that if you and I think about our coin magic with a mindset of "What would Jesus do IF He DID do coin tricks?"

Tony, the comment about having purpose for our "motions and movements" was an aside. I said not only do we need a purpose for our motions and movements (most magicians already know that anyway), but shouldn't we also should have a deeper purpose for each of our effects? A purpose of striking a chord with our spectators? Possibly even moving them emotionally?

I will be clear on that distinction on the DVD (should my prayer and study continue to lead me this way.)


Personally, when I got my Temple Screen, I was bummed at the thought that having Buddha on there is perfectly okay, but if there were a cross or a picture of Jesus on the screens, then non-Christians would freak out in protest. (Unless it was specifically a prop for gospel magic.)

But I can't say I was offended.

Again, I don't want to get too far off topic...I was just curious.


Magicgeorge: I got it...and Yes, it was funny.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
Kipp Sherry
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Tim,

How about this. Instead of Jesus, use another modern day Christian icon, Rick Warren. He wrote a couple of books that are quite well known, "Purpose Driven Church" and "Purpose Driven Life".

Maybe you could call your DVD "Purpose Driven Coins".

I think that gets across what your trying to say.

Until we appear again,
Kipp Sherry

Day 2
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The only business card you'll ever need!
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Dan Bernier
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Or, "Prosperity Coins" Smile
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Payne
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Hey, just throw caution and decorum to the wind and cash in on the DaVinci Code mania at the same time and call it Coin Tricks Jesus Jr. Would Do.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Tim David
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Kipp!

Glad to run into you again and thank you for submitting some alternatives.

I had considered "Purpose-Driven Coin Magic". Smile

Or maybe "Coin Magic On Purpose"

As it stands now, I'm considering several alternative titles with an open mind.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
Terry Owens
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My Buddha comment was in referrence to Payne's comment, I was having a little fun with him. (Actually there is a temple screen with Satan on one side, Jesus on the other side, but it is sold as a Gospel prop.)

To RevLoveJoy: You're really straining at gnats son...you're not comparing apples to apples. A title of a DVD that has nothing to do with a Gospel presentation and calling it what is being proposed here is not the same as illustrating a biblical truth with a magic effect to children that's what we call an object lesson...which is what's done in churches and schools whenever magic is used to teach a truth.

I also agree with the earlier comment that the title is akin to using the Lord's name in vain, actually it was in one of my 3 revisions before I took it out.
Hearttau
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Tim,

Just weighing in here. I think most Christians would think you’re implying Jesus preformed tricks, not miracles. Out of respect for Christians, you might want to seriously reconsider. You'll sell more DVDs for sure.

God bless,

Dave

P.S.

Personally, I consider the title "Matrix God's Way" to be egotistical and offensive. I never looked at, or considered the effect because of the ill-conceived title.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand

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"Hold on to your joy!"... Me Smile

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Terry Owens
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Tim, your not really making it clear what your intentions are for this DVD. Is it just outstanding coin effects that you are teaching or is it a DVD about using coin magic to illustrate biblical truths? From a pure marketing standpoint, your answer to that question would help you drive the title.

If it's Gospel driven, then I like the Purpose driven title concept. It certainly would not put off Gospel magicians in purchasing the DVD. If it is just another DVD of coin tricks, unless you're considered an expert in this field, probably will be a waste of time and money to do, and using your first proposed title certainly would be wrong, as most have expressed here.
Tim David
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I'm sorry Terry for not being clear.

It is a DVD of new coin magic....with no Gospel applications.

I agree it would be a waste of time if it were just a DVD of "my handlings" (My handling of the Matrix, or my handling of coins through table, or God forbid another 3-fly!) But in this case, I do have something new to bring to the magic community. New plots, new methods, new sleights, new applications, and an entire coin magic philosophy that makes it all possible.
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
Payne
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I'd wager if you asked your original question in the Coin or Street Magic sections of the Café that you'd get a completely differnt resopnce.

It's a litte slanted toward one way of thinking in here.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
revlovejoy
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Terry, granted yes. Not apples to apples. I think we're all clearer that the intention here was to use a provocative title for its own sake. Your ministry obviously has a far different motive, one I do not question. But you raised the issue of cheapening the work of Christ. I think it is extremely relevant for this forum, though off topic for this thread, to address that very question: does anything we do cheapen the work of Christ? I have removed some routines I did early in this Gospel magic venture for that very reason.

Payne, it's the gospel magic section. Your quick wit is wasted on the observation of bias. I believe the question was raised here not to find the best marketing slogan to reach a coin crowd, but to ask those who care about the matter, what level of offense might be possible if it were used.
Terry Owens
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Thanks for the clarification Tim...

Based on that information, it seems that most agree here that it would not be a good idea to use that title. You've been given some good solid reasons from several here on why you shouldn't use that title. I could understand someone who wasn't a Christian coming up with a title like that, but it does cross the line, as many of us agree.

If you want blessed in your selling, I wouldn't go there.

Be blessed
Tim David
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Just to let everyone know, I've posted something in the coin tricks forum regarding this title (and other alternatives). My motive for posting the survey is almost completely unrelated to this discussion, but I thought the results from the survey might serve as some kind of "tie-breaker".

I appreciate everyone's feedback on this and I really am prayerfully considering what each one of you have said. Thank you for your insights.

Ultimately, the Holy Spirit will lead in this. I will just have to be patient and quiet enough to hear!


Another thought...

"The Gospel of Coin Magic According To Tim David"

Whaddya think?
Go spread some wonder

http://www.TimDavidMagic.com
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2008-03-05 21:46, Tim David wrote:
Another thought...

"The Gospel of Coin Magic According To Tim David"

Whaddya think?


I think you need to decide who your target audience is prior to naming the project.

Using the word "gospel" makes me think of "gospel" magic.

Do you think David Neighbors needs a catchy title to sell his stuff?

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
gobo
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Tim, I agree with Terry. Just my humble opinion, you mentioned that this Coin DVD has no gospel applications. From a business standpoint, using the word "Gospel" may cause you to lose some of your target market, based soley on their preconceived notion that this is probably a Gospel magic DVD. Consequently they'll move on to looking for something else. It would also save you the trouble of having to perhaps over-explain that it is not a gospel magic DVD, if the word "Gospel" is not in the title.
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